TIP: No jointer? ... no problem?

Wanting to buy suitable project hardwoods but, no jointer? ... no problem?
Very possibly.
Below is a short guide to one possible approach to buying suitable hardwood lumber for that next project if you don't own the tools necessary to mill your own from rough stock.
IOW, even if you don't have a jointer, or in some cases a planer, you may still be able to avail yourself of straight, suitably flat, hardwood stock for that upcoming project.
Many hardwood lumber yards, and particularly the "hardwood boutiques" that have sprung up recently in metropolitan areas catering to tradesman and the public, routinely carry a selection of their hardwoods in various stages of "dimensioning" and/or "surfacing".
One method of overcoming the lack of tools that preclude milling your own rough stock is by finding a hardwood dealer that displays, FOR YOUR SELECTION, hardwoods designated as "S2S1E".
If properly selected, and certainly depending upon your project needs, "S2S1E" in particular will rarely require jointing to be useful. The key to insuring this is to select stock that is suitable for your project to start with, While some cupped and bowed stock may be able to be dealt with by judicious trimming to width and/or length if the board is otherwise suitable, if there is any doubt, leave it at the lumber yard!
"S2S1E" is an industry standard term that designates that the stock has been planed (often to a specified dimension - See pdf file below) on 2 faces, and one edge has been ripped, giving you an edge to reference against your table saw fence for ripping to desired project width.
CAVEAT: Besides a tape measure, which you should always carry with you when buying hardwoods, bring a square and check out the edges of your candidate S2S1E. If a board suits you otherwise, but the edged surface is not quite square to the faces (a rare case with S2S1E from a reputable dealer!), you can either deal with that later in the shop, or you can leave it at the lumber yard!
CAVEAT: Be careful of the regional differences in the SxS "terminology" (the "standards" should be the same, but as in life and law, definitions are subject to interpretation and can throw a monkey wrench into your intended purchase of suitable stock). In some areas what is referred to as S2S1E herein, may be termed "S3S", or "surfaced three sides". however DO NOT, repeat DO NOT count on it to be what is described here!
CAVEAT: BE VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT YOUR NEEDS IF YOU MUST ORDER YOUR HARDWOODS SIGHT UNSEEN, A HIGHLY UNDESIRABLE PRACTICE FOR THOSE WITHOUT THE TOOLS AND EXPERIENCE TO HANDLE THE INEVITABLE PROBLEMS INHERENT IN ANY STACK/PILE OF LUMBER!
CAVEAT: Bring that tape measure along to check stock thickness ... even though standards exists, when hardwood lumber has been surfaced (and because many dealers sell both hardwoods and dimensioned softwoods) what is being called 1" may be any where from 1" to 3/4", particularly when dealing with "S2S1E" (see #1 below).
Buying "S2S1E," although generally roughly 10% more expensive than its rough counterpart as a rule, has distinct advantages for those without the tools, time, or desire to buy and mill rough stock.
Some of those advantages include:
1. You may find that your hardwood lumber dealer carries "S2S1E" that has been already planed to the most used dimensions: 1/2", 3/4", 7/8", 1", 1 1/4", etc. This means that if you can find stock on display that suits your project, it may not even need to be further planed to your project specs. If not, you can always buy the next up in thickness and plane it to desired thickness.
2. Most defects, like knots, whose effect may not be apparent to the inexperienced buyer's eye on rough lumber, can be clearly seen and evaluated, This is particularly useful in determining whether these defects effect both surfaces. For a particular project, what is unacceptable on one surface, may be quite acceptable on the opposite surface.
3. The grain is visible on S2S1E stock so the finished appearance of the board, and suitability with respect to grain matching, direction, etc, within the project can generally be more easily evaluated,
4. Back at the shop, dimensioning your carefully selected stock to project specs should be a relatively simple task: With the good edge against the table saw's fence, rip to desired width, and plane to desired thickness, if necessary.
If you have selected your "S2S1E" stock carefully, jointing should not be necessary.
CAVEAT: If you somehow find that you must joint a board in a project, and your project requires using boards of identical thickness, be sure to "equally" joint ALL the other boards that meet that requirement. That said, and worth repeating - your best bet is to leave boards with questionable suitability for that project at the dealer!
5. Even though purchasing "S2S1E" can be more expensive upfront, the savings in shop time and effort over that required to mill rough lumber can often end up saving money on many projects.
In the current contentious climate hereabouts, the proof can often be in the pudding, so below are two links that will hopefully illustrate the benefits of this approach if you have the opportunity to do so:
The first is to the .pdf of an invoice (with the personal information of the client, who went along for the trip, blanked out for obvious reason) that shows the description of the hardwood that was purchased (Note that this dealer carries S2S1E that is planed to a specific thickness, which happened to coincide with some of the project requirements):
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/invoice.pdf
The second is a link to a photo of the two largest boards reflected on that invoice:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/WideCherryS2S1E.JPG
Some gorgeous, wide cherry ... and being carefully selected S2S1E, no jointing or planing is necessary and all that is required is to rip to project width!
While the above may not fulfill all your needs, and as always, YMMV ... good luck, and I hope you find some of this helpful on your next project.
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I can attest that buying S2S1E is the way to go also. I have been buying this type lumber for a number of years now and the slight increase in cost is most often offset in a higher yield. Where I often buy lumber they refer to it as S2S+ ripped straight one edge. I use that edge against the fence to straighten and make parallel the opposite edge and then use "MY" edge against the fence. My edge is smoother.
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"Leon" wrote in message

I agree ... if the original edge needs it (glue-up edge, etc) I may add a little less than the rip blade kerfs width to the original rip, and flip it for the final cut.
... particularly when using my Freud "Glue Line Rip". But I may do that even on boards that are destined for glue-up that were previously cut with a Forrest WWII.
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[snipped for brevity]

getting excellent results from that blade and seldom feel the need to run it over my jointer. Any woodworker must invest in a good ripping blade as combo blades simply don't do the job properly.
(Nice looking planks you've got there, boss...*G*)
I hope many here will read through your post as it is very informative. Thanks for that. It has to be the most problematic aspect of woodworking- the supply. Too many shysters in that business and very few 'quality' people. My guy called me a while ago and told me he had some cherry offered to him, but it wasn't great. A lot of knots. BUT.. some fabulous grain/patterns in between them. Perfect for smaller projects which use small parts like chairs and bedside tables. My favourite wood, bar none. I even love the smell of it.
r
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Maybe its your set up. ;~) I use the WWII and very often can rely on the resulting cut to be the surface that gets the varnish. A pass or two with a scraper gets the few tooth marks if any are visible.
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It most likely is my set-up at the moment, but in the past I have always found a ripping blade to do a better job. I have not tried the WWII. I best get a better saw first. There has to be something to that WWII because people keep dropping them huge dollars on them.
r
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wrote:

I don't doubt for a second that you get great results using the Freud. Years ago I had a contractors saw that produced great results with a Systematic combo blade but the same brand rip blade did do a better job at ripping. Then I stepped up to a cabinet saw and the WWII at the same time. I tried the Systematic rip blade again and decided it would be used for questionable lumber. I keep 2 of the WWII's on hand so that I always have one when the other is out to be reconditioned at the Forrest shop. In all seriousness if my stock is perfectly straight you usually cannot see any tooth marks after ripping and cross cuts usually come out almost burnished.
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On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:41:07 GMT, "Leon"

Leon, I use a WWII as well. A dedicated rip blade allows a higher feed rate and is better in thicker stock, like 8/4 leg stock. That said, I use the WWII for 90% of my ripping, only changing for extended rip sessions or stock over full 4/4 thickness.
One of these days I'm going to grab a 30T WWII, which I think will be the cat's rear end. <G>
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wrote:

Yeah...the 30 tooth blade would be nice to have on the thicker woods. You are probably correct about the thicker woods and the feed rate. I seldom cut thick stock however a couple of years back I often resawed 5.5" wide Ipe on the TS with the WWII.
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"Robatoy" wrote in message

Thanks ... having spent close to $200K on lumber in the last few years, and a good 25% of that on hardwoods, it was high time for something constructive on the subject instead of argumentative.
... if I'm going to be guilty of latter, and I freely admit to being so, the least I can do is try to offset some of it with the former, if I can.
Glad you appreciated, and I thank you for saying so.
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While everyone has their own preference in tooling, I also find the Freud GLR to be an excellent blade
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No doubt, it gets great reviews all the time.
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Note: Once you rip a board, the edge will not necessarily be straight, regardless the blade. Nature of the wood and the tension released. Of course, it usually won't be straight from the yard unless it's fresh, either.
Trying to squeeze the newly created bow out of a couple of six-inch boards is but one reason to own a jointer.
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"George" wrote in message

Excellent point ... thanks for including it.
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When I was building my bench I ripped a piece of 5" wide 4/4 hickory. Three feet south of the blade the gap had opened up to more than an inch.
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this afternoon I could have used on to true up a few sub assemblies I wanted to glue together. Instead, I used the table saw and have perfect mating edges. You learn to use the tools you have rather than the tools you wish you had.
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Good info! These days I buy most of my stock as S3S. I've always had a jointer and years back I'd buy rough stock. However, I found that I was spending too much time in rough milling. Also, S3S has gone through another layer of sort and I feel the yields are more favorable. As posted earlier, from there I use a Freud Glue Line Rip. In most cases I still run them across the Jointer but this might be more habit than necessity.
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"Joe Bemier" wrote in message

Thanks, Joe ... IMO, you and Leon hit the nail on the head with regard to yield.
FWIW, check out Tom Watson's most recent post in a parallel thread. Just about the time you think you got a good grasp of the subject, it's always amazing to me how little you really know, and how much you can learn from someone else's experience.
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