Tim Daneluk

[Dave Balderstone]

I agree with this, as long as you add the Clinton, Bush 1, and Carter administrations to the list of failures. And add Egypt to the list of countries.

djb

[Dave Balderstone]

In the second case, nobody noticed nor cared.

[Java Man]

Well, it's worked before in . . . uh . . . let's see . . . . well, somewhere . . . I think . . . . ?

;-)

Rick

[Joe Barta]

Of course they could. Then people start getting fired and replaced with other people that WILL seek to expand and tap the Chinese market in the best way possible at this time.

You suffer from unrealistic and impractical idealism.

Suck tit? Not sure what that means. At any rate, Google is a corporation. They are in business to make money and making money is good. Also, keep in mind that decisions are rarely between that which is good and that which is bad. It's usually a little more complicated than that and given all considerations the folks making the decisions make the best one they can.

It's simple to say that Google should just tell the Chinese to go f*ck themselves... but then what do you have? Nothing.

Joe Barta

[Joe Barta]

Gee, now there's a workable idea. I say GWB just pulls his head out of his ass and cuts off all trade with China until they behave the way we'd like. Such a simple solution. I wish I had your grasp of the situation and your talent for problem solving.

Joe Barta

[Dave Balderstone]

It worked with South Africa. But it was our Prime Minister at the time, not your President, leading the boycott.

[Tim Daneliuk]

OK

[Java Man]

Or perhaps Google ripoffs emerging in China, with no protection for Google's IP?

Rick

[Dave Balderstone]

What IP? Google isn't doing anything proprietary in its web and usenet aggregating. You or I could start doing it tomorrow.

All Google has that you don't is a head start, a supoena to appear before the US Congress, and $19 billion less share value than they had a couple of days ago.

[Joe Barta]

Not sure I understand what you mean. Could you explain it further?

Joe Barta

[Doug Miller]

Yes, and then the Chinese government would have blocked access to Google altogether. I don't see that as an improvement.

[Enoch Root]

IIRC, a couple of years(?) ago when this all started, China was blocking google altogether, but bowed to internal pressure. Then they tried blocking the google cache. That meant the user was confronted with broken links. Google had only to put a notice up saying "hacked by PRC" or whatever and they could have called it good.

So this deal doesn't remove Google from a ban list or otherwise stop google from making money in china. It is a convenience to the PRC that a nice government friendly airbrush is being applied to the world, courtesy of Google.

er

[Java Man]

China is famous for ripping off intellectual property of many kinds -- patents, copyrights, etc. Google has a competitive advantage in the search engine business. It says it wants to "organize the world's information". If it didn't comply with China's request, I can think of a few negative consequences for Google.

If it wants to include China's information, it has to submit to China's conditions. They may have included either submitting to censorship or granting access to records far beyond what the Bush administration is seeking. I don't know whether there's a quid-pro-quo for agreeing to censorship, but it's possible that China may have agreed to enforce any intellectual property rights Google may use to protect its competitive advantage. I don't know the world of search engines, and for all I know, there may be no IP to protect? Another possibility is that agreeing to China's conditions allows Google access to the Chinese market, thus helping to forestall (or even prevent) a Chinese competitor from establishing a foothold in the Market. Yes, Google has a big lead, but only a fool thinks a big lead is insurmountable. Ask GM.

Rick

[Enoch Root]

No.

er

[Enoch Root]

Oops... I meant to say, "No, the Chinese govt. would not have done that."

They tried once, and had to open it up again. Instead they blocked items in the cache.

er

[Dave Balderstone]

Oh. Then it's far, far, better that a US company participate in the censorship and profit by doing so.

Thanks for clearing that up, Doug.

[Mark & Juanita]

Interesting spin. Take a few members of congress acting rudely and it is Bush's fault, Bush has a credibility problem. Kind of hard to hold that ground when the other party deigned to use Ted Kennedy to act as head inquisitor of Judge Allito on the subject of ethics. You just can't make this stuff up.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Dave Balderstone]

The latest leftoid conspiracy theory that has made my top 5 is that the

*lack* of Christian right-wing protest against Brokeback Mountain is a vast Christian right-wing conspiracy to negatively affect the box office returns of what's just a mediocre movie by NOT protesting it.

On the bright side, finally we have a western where the good guys get it in the end...

[Mark & Juanita]

aaargh :-)

... or as one person was heard to say, "well, that's one range where the sheep *aren't* nervous"

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[todd]

Well, if it worked for South Africa, it's bound to work for China. I mean, South Africa has an economy nearly 7% the size of China's, so it's the perfect model. I tell you what, let's do the same for the middle east and just boycott Iran and Saudi Arabia while we're at it.

todd