This is so cool! A 'safety' table saw that detects your finger.

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wrote:

I think my point would be that even if the companies all acted entirely independently they would have done the same things because of the business model they were presented with. None of them could afford the cost and they would all recognize both the danger of competition and the lawsuit problem so independently or in collusion they would want to prevent the new technology from coming to the market. The fact that there was some interest shown tells me that the engineering side liked it, but the management side scotched it for the reasons given above.
I also don't mean to accuse Gass of being "greedy", merely that he presented a typical beginners plan, one that demands too much, too quickly to be palatable to the industry. I've seen it happen the same way before with other good ideas. The problem is that the inventor wants to recover his R&D more quickly than the industry normally amortizes such things. A lot of things go into it, and we will never know the full truth, but Gass lost my sympathy (which he had up to that point) when he went the regulatory route.
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Tim Douglass wrote:

Just look at the name of the legal research firm that provided the "direction" for the industry. It's an industry in itself.
er
--
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In addition, it's par for the course that there would never be any formal "freeze-out". *Any* hint of something formal or documented and charges of collusion would have them all in court costing them all fortune.
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wrote:

Well with that kind of thinking how bout you send me your next pay check.
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I'd rather they just offer a reasonably priced licence to other manufacturers, and see what the market uptake is.
--
Talking about art is like dancing about architecture - Frank Zappa

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On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:43:57 -0600, Dave Balderstone

It won't happen though. They're not doing it to save fingers, they're doing it to make money by force.
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They're not doing it to save fingers, they're

That worn out obsolete line has been dead news for a long time. Snore.
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On 26/02/2006 8:47 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:

It's also a verb.
mandate (mn'deIt), v. [f. L. mandat-, ppl. stem of mandare to enjoin, command.]
1 trans. To command. Obs. rare-0.
2 To commit (one's sermon) to memory. Sc.
3 To assign (territory) under a mandate of the League of Nations. Cf. mandate sb. 4 b. So man'dated ppl. a.
4 To give a mandate to, to delegate authority to (a representative, group, organization, etc.). Freq. as man'dated ppl. a., permitted to act on behalf of a group, etc., approved by means of a mandate.
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The Doug Payne entity posted thusly:

And of course, this being Usenet, one might also point out that any noun can be verbed, and any verb can be nouned.
Forte Agent complained about 'verbed', I'm adding it to it's dictionary'. :-)
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On 27/02/2006 9:50 AM, Oleg Lego wrote:

I think that's "verbized" and nounized", isn't it? :-)
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I'd suggest that the general consensus is that the saw is acceptable as long as money doesn't have to be spent on false activations and as long as the tendency to use unsafe practices around the Sawstop do not take over because of it's safety features.
In other words, if I needed a tablesaw, I'd consider the Sawstop as being completely practical as long as I don't needlessly have to spend money or become a danger to myself while operating it.
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favorable manner.
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Leon wrote:

I daresay it more like ony about 10% think it is NOT a great idea.
The personal reasons why we haven't all bought one include price, objections to the 'marketing method' described elswhere in this thread, and concern about false positives, e.g. tripping when not necessary. If it were cheap, works as advertized (which it may) and was available from a variety of vendors there would be no rational objections ot it, so only the irrational would object to having one.
The 10% who do NOT think it is a good idea are probably the same guys who think fuses and circuit breakers are a bad idea and probably save old bronze pennies to use in theirs.
--

FF


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I would like to think that... I have always thought it was a good idea but typically the flavor is not for the SawStop. Initailly because it would incourage carlessness. I never quite understood that reasoning. Personaly I would never trust my fingers near a spinning saw blade even knowing that there was better than a 99.99% chance that it would stop and not badly harm me.

BUT...We still probably own and will continue to purchase American built products won't we? Do we own American cars? For many years American cars were expensive compared to many better built imports. American Marketing, how about the High import taxes imposed on all imported automobiles so that the American car builders would not have to lower their prices. American built cars do not have that tax. False positives? Have we ever had a check engine light come on and the dealer found nothing wrong and we still had to pay a diagnostics charge? The problems that SawStop may be having with some of their saws and their methods of bringing their product to market is nothing new to many American manufacturing companies.
If it were cheap, works as advertized (which it may)

I cannot agree more. Its too bad that when SawStop initially approached other manufacturers that the product was turned down.

Well I would not go so far as to say that but I suppose you are correct. There are those that truly believe that an accident cannot happen to them because they know every thing there is to know about saw safety and they enforce those safety rules 24/7. I would certainly like to believe that only 10% are against the SawStop because if SawStop continues to thrive the other manufacturers will most certainly have to get on the band wagon to satisfy the remaining 90% of us. Most likely with more manufacturers offering this type safety feature the price of this technology will come down.
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I don't believe that. There's always that segment of the population who are going to be driven solely by cost. Just like chiwanese products that are flooding North America, there would always be a market for a non sawstop table saw. However, it would be nice if the price of the technology would come down. I'm counting on that process to happen a little bit more before I buy my first flat panel computer monitor and first 60" flat screen TV.
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If all the major manufacturers offered the saw stop as an option, I am curious at where the median price for the option would have to be set. You know, at what price would about half of purchasers opt for the option and about half opt not to get it.
$50, $100, $200, $500, $1000?
It seems right now that they are charging around $4000 for the saw when you can buy a unisaur for around $1800 so the saw stop option basically is over $2000 right now. It seems like this is sawstop's main problem.
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Well, taking into account from Sawstop's desire to make a profit, I'd be interested to know what expense their added technology costs when applied to a tablesaw. It's almost a given that they are following the same rule that the drug companies use. Charge to recoup their reseach costs and charge because no one else has it. I guess all those questions will be answered a few years after the patent runs out and we see if and how many other companies adopt sawstop type technology. (That's assuming during the years leading up that point that the sawstop is still a viable technology)
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wrote in message

Sounds like the same scenario that Freon has gone through in the last 20 years. IIRC DuPont holds the patent on all the current versions of Freon. Back in the early 90's and probably now, you could get the Freon much cheaper outside the US from the places that do not play fair to DuPont's patents.
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wrote in message

Hi -
Be glad to show you one at the downtown Toronto store ....just have to ask! (once we're open that is....April 3rd),
We're replacing every table saw we have with Sawstops. (and selling off the saws we have!)
The bottom line for us is that it's a high-end, well-made tool.... with excellent safety features. Yes - it's a tad costly... but we have literally hundreds (if not thousands) people using our shop saws each year .... and it's not a question of "if" an accident happens - it's "when"....and that's what makes the decision for us.
Probabilties (and economics) take on a different slant with size.....
Cheers -
Rob
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Is this the real Robin Lee Speaking??? ;~)

I would say a very smart decision.
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