This is so cool! A 'safety' table saw that detects your finger.

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henry wrote:
<< Do I need to research a topic before throwing it out to this group to see if it had been talked about last year? Swearing, name
calling, and politics etc need to be eliminated somehow. The woodturning group and others that I've seen dont have this stuff going on. >>
You should. If the right guys get to the message first, you will be OK with your questions. If some of the regulars that consider this their personal forum get to you first you will bet blasted with sarcasm, and made to be felt like an idiot. They talk to people in mean, arrogant way that would certainly get them bitch slapped silly if they did it to another man in person. But internet anonyminity makes everyone here pretty courageous.
There are a lot of talented people here, professional and hobby guys, and most of them only lurk since the current tone of the group is as you see can be dicey. It comes and goes. But the more it changes, the more it stays the same. After a while, some go away, some new folks come on board. The group seems a little nastier than usual now, though.
But some leave with great fanfare, have an online pity party on their own behalf right here, and lament the unfairness of how they are treated for being a fountain of knowledge. It is hilarious. Those wackers never stay gone for more than a month or so as no one else wants listen to their baloney in person. So they bravely come back, like watching Oprah, they decided to bravely try again to get share their knowledge and experience and "not let the bastards get them down". These are guys that just love too much, I guess.
While there are a lot of really nice folks here that are really helpful (Mike Marlow just spent some great effort to help me with paint spraying) the highest and best use of this group is now and probably will always be the archives.
If you spend any time here at all, you will notice that by far and away the longest threads with most participation are the most negative, petty, and venal of the postings. Searching the archives make this really easy to get around.
If you have a real time question to ask you should be ready for anything, as you see on this thread. I would encourage you to ask away, but be ready for the snotty sarcasm from those a little that have that tiny fragment of information that they think makes them a genius.
I would encourage you to go to a moderated forum if you don't like the wide open format here, as the kids indeed do play nicer because Dad (or Mom) will blank the sarcastic, ugly, profane or off topic responses. You can try woodweb, woodcentral, and a few others out there for a forum atmosphere, but this is a public forum so "it is what it is".
Robert
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Including you...
Some of us actually post under our real names, BTW.
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- Mark Twain.
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"Leon" wrote in message

just
Actually, it was in Louisiana ... back in the swamps, if you didn't look like you belonged, or speak French, you were "American", not Acadian. Many times, when I was out fishing or hunting and came up on one of those tar paper shacks, I heard the occupants say, in French, "Here comes an American".
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On 27/02/2006 1:13 PM, Swingman wrote:

Sounds like some places in Quebec; just substitute Canadian for American :-)
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The Upscale entity posted thusly:

I've lived in Canada for a little while. As of tomorrow, it'll be about 62 years. I think I am well qualified to judge the insult content of 'Canuck'.

I didn't know there was a 'spamslam', or I would not have used it in my address. I'll change it.
No, I did not inform you that American might be taken as an insult. I said that 'Canuck' is as insulting to me as 'American' is insulting to you. I did make the assumption that 'American' is not insulting to you at all.

Well, that words, isn't it? You can use any word in a deprecating manner. That's why we keep having to change what we call people to keep ahead of the PC (no, not Porter Cable) Police.
Larry
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Robatoy (in snipped-for-privacy@nr-tor01.bellnexxia.net) said:
| || Of course, now you're going to have to enlighten me as to why being || called in American might be insulting. The only way I can envision || that is if it's used in the context of an insulting sentence. | | Can I have some examples, please?
Insults, like compliments, are largely a matter of receiving 'em that way.
One of my bright memories - sorry if I'm repeating an already told story - was being asked in Paris if I was Canadian. I took it as a compliment - and was proud to identify myself as an American.
The response was a happy smile that I chalk up to relief that such terrible French wasn't coming from a Quebecois. :-)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Dave Balderstone wrote:

I think he's trying to say that it's required. Abd perhaps that he's one of those individuals who doesn't like government telling him how to live his life - at least that aspect of his life that concerns primarily his own well-being.
I don't know what dictionary you checked but you have to check beyond the main word entry...
man·date (măn'dāt') n. An authoritative command or instruction. A command or an authorization given by a political electorate to its representative.
A commission from the League of Nations authorizing a member nation to administer a territory. A region under such administration. Law. An order issued by a superior court or an official to a lower court. A contract by which one party agrees to perform services for another without payment. tr.v., -dat·ed, -dat·ing, -dates. To assign (a colony or territory) to a specified nation under a mandate. To make mandatory, as by law; decree or require: mandated desegregation of public schools.
The above was off the internet. Just to be sure, I checked Webster's New World Dictionary and they also list it as a transitive verb.
Then again, your main point is well taken. Akin to cutting off one's nose to spite their face. I'm not aware of any law being broken in attempting to create a market for one's product through legislation - especially in matters of safety.
If anyone doubts this, simply look back at things like, oh, seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, etc. Which came first? The product or the mandated usage thereof?
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On 2/26/2006 10:59 PM Unquestionably Confused mumbled something about the following:

You might want to try again here. Sawstop wanted to mandate that THEIR technology would be in all saws. There is no single company that makes seatbelts or motorcycles helmets, etc, that mandates their product be used. Seatbelts and helmets were around a long time before they were forced on consumers, and helmets still aren't universally forced on motorcycle riders.
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Unquestionably Confused wrote:

I think that most of these guys who are objecting to this "technology" are like me, tired of being protected from themselves. It seems that safety requirements are based upon the assumption that everyone using a vehicle, or any other machinery which may cause injury or death if misused, is an imbecile incapable of using "common sense".
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Spot on. I think the technology is amazing, and I'm all for it. I object to the tactics of the company in trying to force their *patented* technology on the marketplace.
--
Talking about art is like dancing about architecture - Frank Zappa

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On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 22:50:47 -0600, Dave Balderstone

Yeah, if they're so concerned about safety, how about they give up their *patent* and just provide the technology, free of charge, to the saw manufacturers?
Let's see how much they're motivated by greed.
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Right! And of course, you work for free because you don't have any bills to pay and you don't care for some of the finer things in life. My apologies, how could I even think that you might be even a little bit capitalistic.

Nah! You wouldn't be motivated by greed of any type. Of course you don't own a car or a house, or a boat, or a stereo or a television. After all, none of those things are necessary for you to live. All you need is a little bit of food once in awhile and you're set. <smack me silly> What could I be thinking?
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He is grabbing for straws now.
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wrote:

I'm not trying to force everyone to use my services though. They are. They're not fighting to have *SOME* safety equipment mandated on all saws, they're fighting to have *THEIR* safety equipment mandated. And of course, since they own the patent on their equipment, every time any saw manufacturer sells a saw, they get a paycheck.
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And what about the other side of the story? From everything that I could gather, all the other tablesaw manufacturers banded together to keep Sawstop out of the market. Reason being that incorporating Sawstop technology on their own products, would cost them profits. The idea was that if they all spoke as a single unifying force, there was much less chance they'd be sued for selling potentially dangerous equipment.
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20050701/disruptor-gass.html
On one hand, I agree with you that legislation forcing the Sawstop equipment on people is tantamount to an attempt at a cash grab from everybody. The other side of the equation is that all the other manufactures might deserve to be forced to capitulate to the technology. Read the article and decide for yourself.
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wrote in message

Kinda makes you think. While some would say that SawStop is only interested in making a buck and not interested in our safety, at least they are not the ones making the buck trying to insure that our safety is not on the agenda.

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Upscale wrote:

Two sides to every story, and that one is very interesting. I still don't like the idea of mandating SawStop's tech, but that may have been done in desperation at the evident conspiracy to quash it.
"Defense Research Industry", indeed. Should be Industry Defense Research.
er
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wrote:

I don't blame them, they're being forced to use someone else's safety equipment, pay royalties for it, and are barred from using their own versions which may be even safer. Yeah, I think that's pretty stupid myself.

I don't think anyone should be forced to use a third party's product, period. If they want to legislate a form of safety equipment, fine. Each manufacturer can come up with their own equipment that meets the criteria. Insisting that it's SawStop's equipment is ludicrous.
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wrote:

I suspect that the real issue all through is the 8% royalty. The lawsuit issue is real, and not something that a company can just handwave away. If you don't consider the worst-case scenario you're going to be out of business if anything does go wrong. Gass has been greedy about it from the start and that has hampered his ability to get anywhere with the big manufacturers. How many table saws are sold world-wide each year? I'm guessing in the hundred-thousands, if not million plus. A $5 royalty would buy a lot of baked beans. Eight percent on a $500 saw is $40, that's a huge deal to a manufacturer - especially since they would be paying that in addition to the cost of manufacturing the parts.
Yeah, the manufacturers probably kind of banded together, although it is unlikely that it was any sort of formal "freeze-out", but the main thing it sounds like to me is that he just brought a poor business model and they couldn't justify the cost, although the interest he got from the manufacturers indicates some were seriously considering it. Of course, once they decided not to adopt his technology the simple economics of competition kicked in. What Gass interprets as an attempt to stifle his technology is more likely just the normal attempts to smother any new competitor.
All that said, it remains interesting technology, and the saw interests me, but more for the riving knife, solid construction and good fence than the blade destroyer installed under the table. I think the other features contribute more to safety than the last-ditch solution.
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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I guess it will have to remain open to debate. All I know is that I've seen and witnessed some really wicked (what I believed to be) collusion between companies when they think a newcomer is trying to take some of the market. Considering the avarice that is buried in most people's souls, my tendency is to side with the notion of Gass being shut out ~ whether he was greedy or not.
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