This is borderline question / borderline job ad copy...

[Joe AutoDrill]

This is borderline question / borderline job ad copy...

I've been looking for a good part time person. Someone who can tap a 4-40 hole by hand without breaking my tap very often. I'd like them to also be mechanically inclined for light assembly.

I've "found" two PT folks and they seem to be working out just fine. However, I'm at a point where I think I may look for a full time person to be the liaison or connection between the office and the shop. A working foreman for lack of a better term...

If someone had experience with AutoCAD or Solidworks, it would be a major plus, but is certainly not needed.

We have most of our components made for us and do assembly in a nice bright, clean, heated / cooled shop. Very little dirt work other than the occasional spray painting / drill press stuff that we do.

Being in the Northeast, there is not a huge pool of folks I can pull from. So... I have to decide whether I want to continue being the office / shop manager of sorts or to jump right into finding a person to play this part...

As I type this, a retired jeweler just walked in and will "try out" for a position starting Tuesday...

So my decision... Where do you look for a person like this? I had a recruiter call me early this week and I told him we didn't have a match for him... But now I'm wondering if maybe he could have found me someone...

Thoughts?

Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. [phone]

01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: Spindle Drills:

[Mike Marlow]

If I'm not mistaken, I've seen a couple or a few posts from you lately which essentially said the same thing as the above. The part that talks about tapping a 4-40 hole. It caught my eye this time, thinking that I'd seen it before from you. It seems to ring cynical to me.

Why not make one of these guys the person you're after?

There sure should be. This is an area that is rich in displaced machinists, etc.

From what I recall Joe - and I haven't gone back to check this, it seems to me that you've complained a lot about not being able to find a person that can't tap a 4-40 hole. Maybe you are already convinced there is no one out there?

How would you find someone? Well, I'd start with a list of required skills and the pay rate before I delved off into the "...and not break too many of my taps" stuff. The overall tone of what I seem to recall hasn't been one that would make me want to apply. I'm sure that's not a very accurate impression of your operation - just trying to reply with my thoughts.

[Joe AutoDrill]

Nah. Just a perfect example of how precise or impresice the person's skill level should be. Someone who swung hammers all their life breaking up concrete slabs probably doesn't know how to tap a 1/4-20 hole let alone a

4-40...

All are partially retired. None are interested. Plus, I need someone who is going to last 10-20 years in the position in the best case scenario. I'm looking at it as an apprenticeship for someone in their 30's or 40's... However strange that sounds.

Send 'em my way!

Wrong perception. No confrontation intended...

Nah. We're a light hearted operation, clean, bright, no stress, etc. It's a simple example of the skill level I need... Not a criticism of anyone or anything.

Same as a wood worker saying "someone who can run a table saw without cutting their fingers off." There are some people who have the skills to touch a table saw and those who shouldn't be let within 100' of one.

Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. [phone]

01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: Spindle Drills:

[Mike Marlow]

Rugh-roh! You had to go and say that now didn't you? You do realize you left the door wide open to the Blade Guard thread, don't you. You're never going to find your guy now...

[tom]

[Prometheus]

Here's a big question- do you have a tapping machine (like a flex-arm, or similiar,) or are you giving the poor sods a power drill and a tap? If the latter- or if you're using a simple T-handled tap, you might want to upgrade the system. It'll make the pool of qualified people quite a lot larger in a hurry, as well as increasing your production capability by several orders of magnitude.

If your business can't afford a commerical tapping machine, you can e-mail me off list (prometheus[at]charter.net) and I'll send you a schematic that you can use to build one from square tubes and/or angle iron. You may need to hire a machine shop to make a pivot, but other than that it's very simple.

Or, you may need to look at another solution. Depending on all sorts of things- like volume, rates and time requirements, you could ship all or part of your assembly to another area. If you're really finding it impossible to find people to do this work, I'd be willing to take it if it is realistic to ship it to Wisconsin via a carrier like UPS, and you are offering a sensible piecemeal rate. Never hurts to make a little money on the side, and you wouldn't need to worry about providing equipment or space- like those taps you've mentioned several times.

But you need to have a few more details about what you're making for any real help.

[CW]

Since when? Word I have been getting from back that way, machinists are as hard to find there as they are here (Washington). Shops here are advertising aggressively and offering large hiring bonuses. We have been trying for so long that we have started to (try) to train people. People willing to learn are about as hard to find. Believe me, his statement about the ability to tap a hole is not being arrogant, it is fact.

[CW]

Not if I find 'em first. We need them here. :)

[Lew Hodgett]

CW wrote: > Since when? Word I have been getting from back that way, machinists are as > hard to find there as they are here (Washington). > Shops here are advertising aggressively and offering large hiring bonuses. > We have been trying for so long that we have started to (try) to train > people. People willing to learn are about as hard to find. Believe me, his > statement about the ability to tap a hole is not being arrogant, it is fact.

My guess is you could find a lot of good machinists, tool room people, etc, in the "Rust Belt", (AKA: Machine Tool Capital of the US) (ie: Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, & Cincinnati come to mind)

When I lived there, had a couple of neighbors who were tool room people.

They didn't know what is was not to work a 70 hour week for 2-3 years at a time.

Only problem is most are probably past 50 and not willing to move.

Lew

[Prometheus]

That's going to be fun when the wife and I move in a few years, assuming the job market is going the way it is now. Especially if I get that promotion to engineering/programming I've been working on.

Keep guessing. It's a shortage everywhere. I've been seeing a lot of ads reclassifying machinists as "gold collar" workers. Don't know what the problem is, exactly, as it pays much more than the average blue collar and service jobs in the area (often more than double), doesn't generally require a great deal of physical strength, and has gotten easier every year as they refine CNC tools. That still isn't a huge amount of money in my neck of the woods, but it sure beats being a stocker at the grocery store or an office rat. Only down side is when huge runs come through, and it gets boring. Hell, I hardly even get dirty at my job- and as long as I know how to do the work (and I do) I don't even have to deal with anyone getting on my case. They're so afraid of losing even one guy, the owner and executives are extra nice to everyone on the floor. Makes for a good work environment- it's not like that at every shop, but more and more are becoming that way as the older guys retire and there is no one to replace them.

And it's not just machinists- it's welders, carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, excavators and all other trade jobs that most people have decided they'd rather not do. A couple of them have an excess of people, (HVAC comes to mind- though I'm not sure why that is) but most work where a guy could get his hands greasy or maybe even get a bad bruise or a cut on the arm is being dismissed out of hand by a lot of people.

Same story now as it was then. Lots of OT- because there aren't enough machinists to go around.

[CW]

As I've said before, Prometheus, come out here. Plenty of work and a nice place to live.

Some years ago, I was in a position to buy a shop that I had worked in for several years. The type of work we did paid far higher than the typical and there was plenty of it. One of the reasons that I didn't buy it was knowing that I would have an extremely had time finding machinists. The type of work we did could not be economically done with CNC machines. It's hard enough to find someone to run them, let alone someone who can independently produce a part using conventional machines. CNCs are great for their production capabilities but for small lots or singles, they just don't make it. The shop still exists, under new ownership, but it's capabilities are a fraction of what it used to be. I am the only one of the original crew that isn't retired. I was the first guy the founder ever hired. I now run a shop full of robots.

If that's the case, you'll find the money much better out this way too.

True.

[Lew Hodgett]

Funny what you remember.

Very early in my career, worked for what can best be described as a screw machine house.

Anything less than 1,000 piece runs was turret lathe time.

Anything less than 5,000 pc runs was single spindle time.

Not until it was a 10,000 pc run were the multi-spindles were used.

Since this was before CNC, the tool designers were kept busy designing the various cam templates req'd.

Don't even know if National Acme, the single & multi screw machine tool builder, is still in business which I'm sure would have an effect on how screw machine houses operate today.

Lew

[Prometheus]

I did my apprenticeship at my uncle's saw/knife grinding shop, and there were no CNC tools whatsoever. And even though that was well over a decade ago, I still have to shake my head in disbelief when the engineers come out to me and walk past the lonely Bridgeport in the corner with a disk in hand for a single part for a jig. Tried explaining that it would make more sense to do it over there, and let my machine run production, but they always want to switch the setup and run it off the program. Only thing we ever use that nice mill for is chamfering holes, despite the large rack of cutting tools right next to it and the handy digital readout.

Manual machining is getting to be a lost art, and it's a shame. I always enjoyed it far more than setting up for five minutes and then watching the machine work for an hour or two while I do crap a monkey could do like tap holes or cd weld to fill the time. Kinda wish the machine was doing *that*, while I got to do the fun stuff.

Well, it's almost certainly in the cards, after the wife finishes school- provided we can sell the house (there are a lot of vacant homes in my town that have been sitting with signs on them for nearly a year.) Can't take too much of a loss on it, as my shop won't fit in an apartment, and we'll need the down payment for a new house.

[Joe AutoDrill]

The jewler starts tomorrow... We shall see. I don't think he wants 40 hours... but for now, he might fit the bill perfectly.

As for votech schools... They don't bother to return our (many) phone calls.

I'd love to teach a young person the skill. I'm a volunteer youth leader and have been for 15+ years. It would fit well, IMHO.

Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. [phone]

01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: Spindle Drills:

[Joe AutoDrill]

I'll arm wrestle ya for the contact info...

[Nobody_special]

Send them here to Phoenix. I know someone who's helping grow a machine shop (wants to grow 100%/year, and is on pace). His biggest complaint? Can't find good employees.

Also, one of his goals is to grow in a way that the employees truly feel they're valued and part of the team. He's been on the other end of that stick, and doesn't want to do that to people.

jason at rz iha dot net

remve the spaces and and make other appropriate changes to email me.