Things to come?

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It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it and I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino, now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust extraction.
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$1600 where did you get that info? Although after looking at the videos I could see how it would be in that range considering the price comparisons to other tools. I was thinking I had read that it would be under $1000.
A few cool items on the video, dual laser, a LARGE bevel gauge with coarse bevel adjustment and micro twist handle to get the exact bevel setting, variable speed, depth stop for cutting groves, removable angle finder tool to measure an angle and then bring back to the saw for adjustments, easy blade changes, crown molding stops, adjustable fences, tool storage, cord storage.
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Definitely a cool saw. A wider arbor and ability to use dado blades for "precision grooving" in the next generation would be good. Like the Tormek.. Excessive profits leads to ruiness competition.. and everybody and the bother are making knock offs of that one now. Eventually will happen with Festool, I would imagine.. Especially if the Euro continues to cost a buck and half American.
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a
I
comparisons
Do a search for the model name. Every link I came across was UK based and had the saw listing for about 800 English Pounds. That's $1600 Canadian and almost the same in US funds.
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The tool is likely very heavy. Maybe because of the 10,000 pound chain attached to the cement block guarded by a pair of 100 pound dobermans..... or my lunch bucket. That saw just yells : "STEAL MEEEE!!!!"
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wrote:
The tool is likely very heavy. Maybe because of the 10,000 pound chain attached to the cement block guarded by a pair of 100 pound dobermans..... or my lunch bucket. That saw just yells : "STEAL MEEEE!!!!"
Doesn't it though. BTY I saw a Festool portable TS on the UK web site. ;~)
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For shop workers, that isn't much of a consideration.
For those who have not worked on site for a few weeks at a time, you cannot imagine how hard it is to keep an eye on everything, everybody, and all they are doing on a constant basis.
We have had tools stolen from job sites I have worked on (and on mine) where the thieves weren't even working on the project. Driving by, they saw "targets of opportunity" and took a chance.
Sometimes they case the job by asking if anyone is hiring. Sometimes they act like they are selling something and indeed it may be something they just stole somewhere else. And sometimes, they just drive by and get lucky.
I can't imagine what it would be like to walk around a corner to nail up piece of crown, be intercepted by the client that has to ask you a quick question about something on the other side of the project, and return a few short minutes later to an empty tool stand where your $1500 Festool (or any other brand) saw used to sit.
I keep a hardened chain with a security combination lock in the truck at all times, but you can't lock up everything.
Robert (whose ass is still smarting from the loss of his 4 hp compressor, taken from a secured warehouse after having the chain cut in order to remove it during business hours)
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Still remember my dad telling me about one of his lodge brothers who worked construction and drove a Model "A" roadster with the top down during the summer.
This was in the 30's, during the depression, when they were building the grandstand at the county fairgrounds.
The guy would park in the track infield and leave his tools in plain sight.
Finally somebody decided to gather some of those tools.
Touched the car and got knocked on his ass by 20,000 volts.
Seems the guy knew a little bit about electricity.
He had hooked up an ignition coil, charged by the battery, and discharged when somebody touched the frame completing the circuit to ground.
As far as I know, never did have anything stolen.
Lew
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<snip>
No shit! Like draw the plans, present them to the client and drive me home... Ya know, it may very well be 8 times better than the $200 ones, but I don't have 8 times the skill level to need it..
mac
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<snip>

If savings can be passed on, will the customer pay more because you use good quality/expensive tools?
My guess is the customer doesn't care if you use a million dollars worth of tools or you use a sharp stick and a rock, as long as the end result and price are what they want..
mac
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What is your opinion if a contractor shows up with a load of Festools? Is he a good craftsman, or is he relying on his tools to make up for a lack of skills??? IMO, at least someone who invests that much money into his livelihood, probably isn't a fly-by-night rip-off artist. But some of my friends also think this is just the same as if he were to drive up in a new Mercedes. Maybe a little bit of a showboat.....
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I think that idf a customer recognised the Festool brand he just might do the work himself. ;~)

If you saw Festool in the movies, like in a James Bond film, anyone might be impressed by Festool.
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thank, you sir..

mac
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*snip*
Well, no. A contractor should know codes and be familiar with the permit process, so a wood worker would hire the contractor for this extra knowledge. To watch Norm and David Marks, the contractor builds the house and they build furniture for the house. If the contractor's off by 1/16", in most places it doesn't matter. If Norm or David's off by that much, it makes a big difference in fit and finish of the piece.
Puckdropper
--
You can only do so much with caulk, cardboard, and duct tape.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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"mark" wrote

of
Other than that cheesy Craftsman compucarve whatever, please tell me where can I buy a tool that will make up for my "lack of skills"?
... and be quick about it, I'm working under a deadline here ... getting older by the minute. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
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I gotta disagree here, Mark... I hear other turners saying that a customer expects uniform wall thickness, proportional bottom thickness, etc... In my experience, that's bull shit.. the BUYER wants something that they like the look and feel of and couldn't care less what you made it with.. The turner looking at my stuff is doing just that, LOOKING, not buying...
IMO, if someone knows more about tool brands than a contractor's reputation and work, they're either going to do it themselves or be really high maintenance clients...
If anything, the average client out there is so barraged with ads and commercials that they think Craftsman is top quality and have NEVER seen an ad for Festool... As to showboating, the same applies... If you're not a woodworker, do you know one brand from another or which is the most expensive? I've been making saw dust and shavings for maybe 45 years and had never heard of Festool until I subscribed to this group.. IMO, smart companies direct marketing to the most potential buyers, and that means unless you go to tool stores besides the borg or sears, you'll never hear of the more quality/expensive brands...
Sort of like your very high end cars... you don't see commercials for them between tv shows...
mac
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I had to cut a large archway to connect the new annex of my wife's bookstore (she was able to rent the next-door space to almost double the store's floor space). The side on the new space was no sweat to excavate because it was unoccupied so I did all that work, paint, etc and tidied up before cutting through the from the bookstore side.
My friend, loyal bookstore customer and boat-builder, Al, brought his Festool cart full of tools and we managed to cut through (the wall was plywood) *from the bookstore side* without covering any bookshelves at all. No tarps. No dust. A bit of shop-vacuuming and we were cleaned up. I was amazed at how well it went. And all the Festool guides and gizmos really did their jobs.
Just my limited experience with how much time and effort Festool saved us on this one demanding job.
Leon wrote:

--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com
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About 1 year ago I had a job to add trim in a customers kitchen. The Festool vac and mitersaw would have been great in that application. I probably custom fitted 50 pieces of trim in that kitchen and with each piece it meant a trip out to the driveway. If I did that every day the $1600 would be justified.
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I think you summed it all up with that. No one doubts that the quality of the Festool implements are there, but the question is if one will get the value out of them considering their prices.
When I do a remodel, the house is pretty well torn up and we have dust barriers in place, and my portable dust collector running full time in the room we are doing the most damage to. My MS saw is as close as I can get it in the close quarters of a finished house, which may actually mean a patio or deck.
If the house isn't finished or occupied, who cares where the dust goes? After all, the project will be swept as needed and professionally cleaned at the end anyway.
I can see it being very practical if used like you are saying or as in Ron's example and in several other instances. In that respect, I am sure that there will be those that find the Festool saw indispensable. But for the rest of us.... guess we'll get to read about it here.
Robert
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wrote:
There are several categories of tool purchase.
1) That'll do for this project.
2) I'll be using this often enough to justify the expense.
3) No tool, I know of, will do the job like this one does.
4 ) I cannot do this job without this tool.
5) I am soo busy doing what I do, that the extra $ 1000.00 is meaningless in the scope of things.
6) ALL OF THE ABOVE
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