No. Tom said he HAS to drive a gas guzzler because he can't afford to replace it at the moment. Different thing entirely. It's a vehicle that is probably close to unsalable at the moment.
I drove a Chevy Metro until last year. Not bad for a car I had to put on like a girdle, but the seat backs kept snapping off. It's a Suzuki, anyway. I bought that little thing when I had a contract job that required a 65 mile daily round trip. My pick-up got about 14-15 mpg. Used Metro cost me $4600, IIRC. Of course, GM in its wisdom has quit making them.
Unfortunately for your premise, 30 years ago, there were almost no cars that got 38 mpg. Still aren't many.
Charlie Self "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." Mark Twain
Other way around. Their base motives are apparent for anyone who got out of the barn without blinders. Therefore, they are despicable.
Same point: do you remember the old saying about Caesar's wife? Someone who must be without even an appearance of sin. That is something many of our SP justices seem to have forgotten, as have a lot of other people. If you want people to believe you're even-handed, do not travel with those who are known to members of a faction.
I'm sure you've heard all that, even if you don't understand it.
Charlie Self "We're 269 days from the election, and that's several political lifetimes." TERRY HOLT, Bush campaign spokesman.
Supposed to be a slew of hybrid SUVs and trucks comming in 2005 or 2006. Some may even have a diesel engine coupled with the electric instead of a gas engine to save even more fuel.
Not very many. That was the first year I lived in Virginia, and I had 2 of the then compact cars, a '68 Valiant slant 6 and a 72 Plymouth Duster again with a slant 6. Neither vehicle got much over 22 MPG. I recently had a Crown Vic (well, about 5 years ago), and turned it in on the Metro. Amazing POS. Hardly room for my legs with the seat all the way back--and I'm only about 6'2". Arms cramped up against the steering wheel. Reminded me of why I'd quit buying Fords, though I did like my little 302 Mustang II 4 speed. Trouble was, it had enough power, added to a seriously short wheelbase, that stomping it on a dry road threated to spin it out, and it would break loose on a gob of spit. Lotta fun on dirt roads if you had the reflexes for it.
Charlie Self "We're 269 days from the election, and that's several political lifetimes." TERRY HOLT, Bush campaign spokesman.
If it's anything like my '89 F150, the rest of the vehicle isn't worth investing that much time & money in. Tom's probably doesn't suffer quite as much NaCl cancer as mine does, and PA has this law about any hole bigger than a dime must be repaired to pass inspection. It's old enough to be almost unsaleable, as Charlie said.
BTW, Tom, what is in your F150? my FI 4.9L(straight 6, far as I'm concerned, one of the best dam engines Ford ever made) + C6 used to get about 14.2 on the road.
Amaxing how technology has helped with fuel milage. I've had a bunch of small cars inthe 60s and 70s that got about 20 to 24 mpg. Corvair, LeMans, Karmann Ghia. I now have a full sized car that will outperform them in acceleration, top speed, comfort, trunk size, and just about anything else you name. It gets 24 mpg on a regular basis, 28 on the highway. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net
My first new car was a Chevy. '57 convertible, 283 V8, Duntov dual 4 barrel package, 3/4 race cam, close ratio 3 speed (on the column). Absolute blast to drive (stopping was a whole 'nother story). Two firsts: 14" tubeless tires; 12 volt battery. That was it for real tech. That car was something else, though: it would pass anything on the road but a gas station. Put your foot in it far enough to cut Carter #2 in and you were looking at something in the vicinity of
6 mpg.
Of course, back then, it didn't much matter, or we thought it didn't.
I wanted the fuel injection (mechanical), but that added something close to $500 to the price of an already expensive car (I seem to recal $3100). Just about everything made today has electronic fuel injection, solid state ignition, 50,000 mile (or more) plugs, no points, sealed breather system to keep oil fumes out of the air and dirps off the road and on, for a long list. Most don't have hgh compression engines, of course: I think that 283 was something on the order of 11 or 11-1/2 to 1. It would ping on extra sometimes (back when Esso Extra was probably 98 or 99 octane). And it was just about this time that Esso came out with Golden Esso Extra at $.38.9 per gallon. In Westchester County, NY, one of the most costly places in the country to live, then and now. But the higher end gas was needed for thinks like the Studebaker Hawk, and, a tiny bit later, the Studie Avanti. I seem to recall Chrysler's 300 getting really interesting about that time, too.
Then I joined the Marines, and any chance of even keeping the Chev left. Even back then, $78 a month before taxes wouldn't make the payments.
Charlie Self "We're 269 days from the election, and that's several political lifetimes." TERRY HOLT, Bush campaign spokesman.
Michael Baglio Me, I drive an economy car. Granted, I'm fortunate enough that it's a
What all you guys are not teking into account is how this affects _commerce_. Fine, you drive your 60 MPG Honda hybrid, but what about the shipping company that stocks the table saw you're about to buy? (LOL had to keep on topic!) Will you be demanding that Rockler use Honda hybrids too? What about railroads?
Don't you all know that commerce is the biggest energy user and biggest polluter out there? You think $2.00/gallon prices don't bite you in the ass? Of course it does. In many ways.
You might also think that the price of sugar in India does not make a difference to you, or the price of bananas from Colombia does not affect you, but it does. Just not directly.
On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:39:07 -0500, "Norman D. Crow" brought forth from the murky depths:
Bwahahahahahahaha! Nahmie, I'm surprised at you. You've obviously never driven in PA. I was there once and it was so much worse than (even) CA that I couldn't believe it. My buddy explained that all those toll booths went straight into the Graft Division of PA State. I didn't argue. (or were you being facetious?)
Add up the price of a new vehicle, tag on insurance for same, and you've got a $25k hole in your pocket. As do I, he loves his old Ford pickup. And upgrading should cost $3k or less. That's a no-brainer if the thing is in any kind of shape. AND he retains the lowest insurance rate available. Win/Win.
Yeah, the old 300cid straight sixes were great for farm and country use, but not as good on the freeways. Amazingly, in a full-sized pickup, the V-8s get better gas mileage, especially when loaded. I'll forever be in love with the little 5L Ford 302. They're one sweet little engine.
=========================================================== Save the Endangered Boullions from being cubed!
My 2003 gets 15 in the city and 17 on the highway. It would probably get better with the standard gearing, but I got a stump-puller rearend. My Ranger gets 22 in city, 25 highway, but it's so small for a guy my size. M daughter loves it though. Luckily I'm one of those rich nurses you hear about all the time. Dave in Fairfax
Social Security has no funds. All Al's lockbox has is a bunch of IOUs from you and me (i.e. the national debt) that can only be "repaid" with future taxes. If IOU's from yourself represent "having funds" try writing a bunch of IOUs to yourself andf then go buy a PM66 with them ;)
|> Not very many. That was the first year I lived in Virginia, and I had |> 2 of the then compact cars, a '68 Valiant slant 6 and a 72 Plymouth |> Duster again with a slant 6. Neither vehicle got much over 22 MPG. |> Charlie Self | |Amaxing how technology has helped with fuel milage. I've had a bunch of |small cars inthe 60s and 70s that got about 20 to 24 mpg. Corvair, LeMans, |Karmann Ghia. I now have a full sized car that will outperform them in |acceleration, top speed, comfort, trunk size, and just about anything else |you name. It gets 24 mpg on a regular basis, 28 on the highway.
I have a 1999 Camaro SS that I bought new. The last new car I purchased before that was a 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner.
Pretty much the same concept. Big V-8, 2-door coupe, four passenger (if the Camaro rear seat passengers weigh 40 lbs.), wide tires, stiff suspensions and crappy build quality.
The Roadrunner was a 125 mph car with 50 mph brakes. The Camaro is a
150+ mph car with brakes to match.
The Roadrunner guzzled 100+ octane super premium leaded gasoline and spewed pollution. The Camaro runs on 91 octane unleaded and with modern fuel injection and dual catalytic converters puts out fewer pollutants than the average dairy cow.
The Roadrunner, on a good day got 10 mpg, the Camaro gets 2 1/2 times that.
A pristine 1969 Roadrunner is worth twice what a 1999 Camaro SS is worth [g].
"C-less", I live less than 10mi from PA/NY border, and have travelled a
*lot* of miles in PA, especially when I was OTR. I think perhaps I wasn't specific enough about the "hole bigger than a dime". That's rust holes in vehicle bodies that must be fixed to pass inspection.
Granted! The 300 is a bear, but not really happy on the highway. It's a true low end torquer. Makes a fantastic short track engine, they claim they can pull well over 400 ponies out set up for racing, and you don't have to(and don't want to) rev it high. I've pulled stuff with mine that amazed me. Right now it's got close to 200K, I need to drop the pan & put new bearings in the bottom, as it tends to lose oil pressure @ idle after it gets the oil warmed up. Other than that, still runs fantastic, and I think for pure pull it could outdo my wife's '98 F150 4.6L Triton.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.