The Popes casket.

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Some portion of the brain did function. What is not know (at least not yet) is what portions did and was she able to comprehend anything. While some body function continued, was she still "alive" and what determines "life" as we define it. Long philosophical, theological and physiological debates will continue for years on this matter.
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I sort of wonder what purgatory it would be, for a soul to be tied to a body/mind that but for the active interference of man, would have, should have died years ago.
My prayers for both Terri and the Pope were answered. That she be allowed to die, and meet her fate in the afterlife, and that the Pope would not be hooked up and kept alive past his proper time.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com says...

Well, that's true. But only if you count the "reptile" brain. That's what controls the automatic functions. That's not the part that does any thinking.
And, like you, I suggest we wait for the autopsy report. Of course, whatever it is, one side will claim it was faked. I wouldn't want to be that coroner :-).
--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

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Doug Miller wrote:

Can't help but add a comment. There is no chance the autopsy will prove anything one way or the other. Looking at a dead brain won't provide any of the sought after information. That was expressed by experts before she died. Besides our science has not progressed far enough to look at a dead brain and tell how it functioned while living.
Brain dead all depends on your definition. Her autonomic system was functioning, so in one sense she wasn't brain dead. But most people also use brain dead for failure of the cognitive functions and the cognitive function was the focus of the controversy in this case.
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When this thread started, a long time ago, it had at least a few "on topic" words in it: Pine and Dovetailed corners.
Just about every one of the 50+ posts I have seen since makes me think you all have sawdust in your cranial cavities.
Take it some where else! #1 Your not going to solve your religous / medical debates ever. #2 You shouldn't be trying to solve them in a woodworking newgroup. #3 The unfortunate circus that occurred in Florida regarding Terri Schiavo has nothing to do with the subject of this thread which was regarding the materials and manufacture of a wooden casket.
Can you see the difference or have you been sniffing the varnish too long? No wonder people bitch about all the off-topic posts around here.
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On 10 Apr 2005 21:11:06 -0700, matthewf snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

You are, of course, familiar with "chain of consciousness" or associative thought processes, are you not? This thread has evolved as a living "free association" of thoughts by some dedicated amateur (and some very professional) woodworkers that started with an observation of the construction of the pope's coffin, followed by the circumstances regarding his death, followed by association with other deaths that have received significant publicity at the same time. To have cut off discussion after observing the construction details would have denied the diverse thought processes of the woodworkers involved in the discusssion. To have instructed them to pursue said discussions in another group would have removed said discussion from its context and been the equivalent of requiring that a group of acquaintances jump into a room full of strangers to discuss a subject because it was not germaine to the original party in which it was started.
This is no different than other water-cooler discussions that occur in the wetware world. A quick perusal of the group and even this topic indicate the overwhelming preponderance of on-topic posts.

My apologies! Thank-you for calling this to our attention, Sir! We will all now straighten up and fly right! Sir!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Yup. Welcome to Usenet, Matthew. Thread drift happens.
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    Greetings and salutations....
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:08:55 -0700, Mark & Juanita
    *snip*

    Ok...this seems a PERFECT moment to introduce a theory that has been cranking around in my head (and I DO mean "crank" *smile*.     Since I enjoy starting conspiracy theory rumors, I want to suggest that there was a psychic link between Ms Shiavo and Pope John Paul. *I* think that had the doctors embarked on a more intensive regime of feeding and therapy, while Ms Shiavo might not have recovered, it would have rejuvinated Pope John Paul...     So...by that logic, the folks who decided to let her die... killed the Pope.

    It was pretty amazing to me how the thread drifted from a fairly on topic discussion of materials and techniques used in building the Pope's coffin, and, how that can apply to our daily lives to an argument over the tired tragedy of a body being shut off finally in Florida.     I did appreciate ONE of the OT posts, though, earlier, that pointed out that Michael DID spend several years trying very hard to get therapy for Terri. It was only after this failed that he seemed to accept the inevitable and move on. There have been very few discussions that have brought up this point, and, I think it is an important one.     I DO think it was a shame that so many groups used this tragedy to push their own agenda's...but that seems to be human nature.

    Haw! no we won't... (and that TOO is human nature).
    Regards     Dave Mundt
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:17:51 GMT, the inscrutable snipped-for-privacy@esper.com (Dave Mundt) spake:
--snip--

To the faithful, if God had wanted either to live longer, he would have saved them with a miracle, oui? May Laura and the Pope RIP.

Ditto. The worst tragedy is that Terry didn't have a living will or durable power of attorney for health care which potentially would have saved her 15 years of Hell. See your state for Advance Directives for Health Care, the newest trend. I need to go get that tattoo, too. "DNR"

Amen. (And I mean that in a most non-religious way.)
---------------------------------- VIRTUE...is its own punishment http://www.diversify.com Website Applications =================================================
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Right on. I am sick and tired of Terri this and Terri that. The poor woman's condition and wishes were made into a disgusting and sickening circus by Dubya, Congress and the religious right. Folks will remember come November.
Mutt
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I've got more important issues to decide my vote on, rather than this one.
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Australopithecus scobis wrote:

support
happen
He was on a feeding tube as was Schiavo. Schiavo wasn't on any other life support, and her organs weren't failing. IOW, she wasn't dying.
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Larry Bud wrote:

According to reports JPII was on a nasal tube. That is only a temporary measure because they are uncomfortable and irritating compared to a PEG. I would presume that Ms Shiavo had a PEG (stomach tube). An esaphogastonmy tube would be inserted when needed and withdrawn when not, but as previously noted esaphogastomies are now rare, replaced by the PEG.
--

FF


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