Tablesaw comparison/buying guide

[John Wood]

Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw. Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about is the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms. What are the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away from? For some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which feature four sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just for the fact I could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems seem to be very high quality these days as compared to many years ago in high school shop class. The saw would most likely be used for serious hobby applications with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

[Bill]

What kind of performance (you can buy as much HP as you need)?

Lew Hodgett, a very knowledgeable woodworker, says (tongue in cheek, I think), that "you don't buy a TS, you buy a fence".

Are you willing to spend $60-$100 on a blade?

Grizzly is the only company from which you can buy directly, I think.

I'm basically in the same boat as you are.

If price is no object, you may wish to consider SawStop.

I hope I wrote something useful! :) -Bill

[RonB]

Started off in the same position as you about eight years ago, looking for my retirement machine, with two differences:

- Wanted a cabinet saw - Was pretty much predisposed to Unisaw because of experience with some of them in the 70's and 80's.

Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. Looked at Jet. Ended up with a Grizzly 1023s. Very pleased.

RonB

[DejaVoodoo]

I purchased the Jet you are talking about years ago. At the time it was called the Jet SuperSaw, I looks like they have changed it to the ProShop line. I'm not sure if they still offer the sliding table with it, but for the most part I find that feature useless and has prevented me from purchasing a tennoning jig as there is no miter slot left of the blade. At 1 3/4 HP, it is good for home use. It comes wired for 110, but it is a simple matter of just moving a couple wires around to wire it for 220. I never used it on 110 and cannot comment on the power there, but wired for 220 it has never given me a bit of grief. I added the router into the extension table, but it looks like you can order it that way now.

One beef I have with it is the fence. It attaches to the front and the rear of the table making it hard to fabricate an outfeed table. I cannot tell from the picture of the ProShop, but it looks like they changed the design and no longer requires the attachment at the back of the saw.

Another complaint I have is the dust collection is pretty poor. Before using it, I usually have to open up the back and vacuum it out because most if the dust tends to collect in the saw itself instead of moving off into the dust collector. There is a large plate inside with holes to allow dust through and I believe the intent was to collect the larger stuff that might damage a dust collector. For the most part it just collects almost everything in the saw. Prehaps they have adresses that issue also.

Hope this helps. Mark

[-MIKE-]

Along with the other advice, myself and that SteveA guy would recommend keeping your eyes on whatever sources you have for used gear.

Our recent gloats can attest to the success that can be found.

[John Wood]

Bill,

It was useful, thanks.

I'm looking for what i would suppose all good craftsmen are looking for: A solid workhorse which will run through the day with little or no trouble. Not continuous but when you need it, it should be there. As an example, when I put together an electronics project the first thing I do is turn on my Weller WP35. It is not fancy by any means. But when I need it, its there. That type of thing. I understand the "buying a fence" concept. However, after years of using tabletop saws in the past I need to know there's something under the table also. :-)

Thanks.

John

[John Wood]

I saw that recent gloat.

Jeezaloo. Nice.

:-)

Good used is always a consideration.

Thanks.

John

[-MIKE-]

Major powertool are like cars. I prefer to let someone else take the big hit in value, then get it from them.

[SonomaProducts.com]

My opinion is to get as much saw for the money you are willing to spend. For instance, I would prefer a Grizzly cabinet saw to a Jet or Dewalt hybrid (4x4 legs) for the same price. I would prefer a hybrid to a Saw Stop contractor style.

Cabinet saws have the solidity (is that a word) that just brings a level of non-vibrating quality to the cut that can't be beat. A good fence is a must but you can put a great fence on any saw nowdays.

Here is one for comments. Here is the heirarchy as I see it in terms of cost and value.

Top to bottom:

Saw Stop Cabinet saw Unisaw Grizzly cabinet Hybrid's (Jet or Dewalt or maybe Craftsman) Sorry, I still love Craftsman.

FYI: I think the biggest way that Grizzly keeps their prices lower is because they don't sell through a dealer\distributro so they have a

20-30% advantage, although less availability but with the > Greetings all,

[keithw86]

Interesting. I did just the same (looked for a retirement saw) earlier this year and went the opposite direction. I started with the Griz (G0690) and settled on the Unisaw. By the time I included shipping the difference in price wasn't significant, so went with the Delta.

[Leon]

Especially if you are a beginner and price is not as important as staying safe, consider no other than SawStop. They come in Contractor, Cabinet, and Comercial versions. The price difference between any of those and the cheapest comparable style saw is way way less that the cost to go to the emergency room.

If I wear out my Jet cabinet saw the SawStop will probably be my next.

With proper dust collection a cabinet type saw will be the best bet.

And now,

;~) The single most asked question in this group that I paste this rubber stamp answer to. Both saws will make all the same cuts. Some easier on the left tilt, some easier on the right tilt. Strictly personal preference. But if you need to be steered one way or the other, Advantages: Are you right handed? Get the left tilt.

1. Commonly the Left tilt has the bevel wheel on the right side and is easily turned with your Right hand.
2. Left tilt can rip a narrow bevel with out having to move the fence to the left side of the blade.
3. Left tilt allows the blade arbor nut to be removed with your right hand.
4. Left tilt allows your to remove the arbor nut and turn it in the direction that you would expect.
5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point of the bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the bottom of the fence where it might slip under.
6. RIGHT tilt if you are left handed. The bevel wheel is commonly on the left side of the saw.
7. RIGHT tilt if you "must" use the fence distance indicator when using a stacked dado blade set. The blades stack left, away from the fence. The indicator remains accurate. On the left tilt, the blades stack towards the fence and makes the indicator inaccurate. In this case use a tape measure to set the fence distance.
8. RIGHT tilt allows you to remove the arbor nut with your left hand but the nut must be turned clockwise to loosen. Bassackwards to normalcy. If considering a cabinet saw, with wide 50" rip capacity. The Left tilt will most often afford you the most storage room under the right table extension. The RIGHT tilt has an access door in that location that will demand room to open. The left tilt allows you to have access to the motor and or the insides of the cabinet from the more open left side of the saw with out having to crawl under the right extension table. Very nice if you ever happen to drop the arbor nut inside the cabinet. If you are considering getting a replacement saw and considering going to the opposite tilt this time consider that the miter slots may not be the same distance from the blade when comparing a left to right tilt saw. This may or may not be of concern but something to consider.

With this all in mind, more and more manufacturers are building only in right tilt versions as they tend to be more user friendly and safer in some operations.

[SteveA]

I totally agree with Mike, the used market via Craig's list, classsified etc. are a great source for top notch used equipment that you might otherwise never be able to afford.

In fact, eBay is also a great source for surplus and overstocked equipment as they tend to give greater discounting. If I did not pick up the 12" Rockwell saw, the Powermatic PM3000 TS (14"Blade) w/ 50"Accufence extension table and ci extensions for 1995.00 is a STEAL....:)

SteveA

[John Wood]

I just had look at the Unisaw video. Does the saw live up to expectations as presented in the video?

John

[John Wood]

I'm curious. What did you feel were the weak points of the Unisaw?

John

[TD]

[RonB]

This was around 2001 and my biggest problem was disappointment. I had used an older Unisaw in a college cabinet class during the late 1970's and was impressed. Also, a neighbor had one in the same time period. When I looked at the new ones the instant impression was cheaper build

• high price. The hand-wheel locks were cheaper looking (and I believe eventually picked up some plastic). The motor cover was cheap. The top finish was not what I remembered. Another problem was I was having trouble even finding one without the side table and extensions. At that time I didn't have the space and the price was in the ,500 - .600 range. The JET was actually a better looking machine and in a very similar price range. (Of course the Powermatic was a desirable saw too; but I couldn't justify K for a machine (Did, however, eventually buy a PM jointer)).

A friend steered me toward Grizzly. I took advantage of their customer referral service and was able to speak to a local owner who was very pleased with his machine. About that time I was able to travel to Springfield and got a very good demonstration from a Grizzly salesman . Actually, other than color, the 1023s reminded me very much of the Unisaw of old. I ended up buying a 1023s for about $875+ $75 shipping (again 2001 prices). Never been sorry.

At the time I purchased my 1023, the 1023SL had just been introduced. I was tempted, but I am also hesitant to buy from the front-end of a production run. But, from what I have heard the SL is a good machine. One strong point of the 1023 line is the Shop Fox Classic fence. It has been compared with the Biesmeyer in several reviews and always favorably. It seldom needs to be readjusted and is HEAVY DUTY.

BTW, our son bought the Grizzly G0444Z about three years ago, and I got to use it during the finish of his home. It is lower powered but shares several attributes with the bigger Grizzly (cast table extensions, Aluminum Version of the Shop Fox Classic - also a good fence.) It is a contractor type saw but the stand is very sturdy compared to some other machines.

Good Luck. I shared you decision nervousness but I am pleased.

[Ed Edelenbos]

Whereabouts are you? Most big cities have at least one shop that deals in used tools. That, along with scanning craigs, is a great way to find some pretty great machinery at great prices.

Whether you go new or used, read up (lots of great sources online) on aligning and setup of tablesaws. Many 1st time buyers fail to understand the importance of a proper setup. Setup includes the floor under the saw.

I understand the advice on cabinet saws vs. contractor saws... I've used both and have no real preference. I've always owned a contractor (Rockwell (Delta) for years and now a Powermatic). They have always done a fine job (see advice on setup).

I really shouldn't say this... I'll probably cut my hand off tomorrow. The Stop Saw (or whatever it's called) is nice but it's no substitute for good (and unwavering) safety practices. Know where the blade is and where your body parts are. Don't let the two try to occupy the same space. Don't rush. Don't make a single cut without thinking it through first. Maintain a healthy fear of the machine.

When you get the saw, spend time making stuff. That is to say, get to know the tool. Don't expect your first project to be perfect because you got a good tool. You are still doing the work. (Actually as I think about this one, if I owned a cabinet saw and got to know it and felt as comfortable as I do on my own saw, I might well come to change my mind about not having a preference. (grin))

Ed

[Larry Blanchard]

Everybody's got their own opinion on this one. I'd rank them Sawstop, Powermatic, General, Jet, Delta, Grizzly. That's just cabinet saws.

If you don't count the safety features, Powermatic is just as good as Sawstop.

I haven't checked out the "new" Unisaw. That might change my rankings.

Steel City has/had a small cabinet saw that has a downsized motor so it will run on 110. I liked the looks of it pretty well, but both the saw and the company are new so there's no history. Check:

If a contractors saw will do you, Home Depot has a pretty good bang for the buck.

[RonB]

Given our times this is pretty good advice. It is unfortunate, but I suspect even the classified's and pawn shops might be a source to check out. With the condition of the economy there might be a lot of folks selling equipment.

RonB

[Matt]

You are on the correct track by researching ...

From the replies you have gotten so far, the only item I can add is if you haven't yet, you should define your requirements, current and future, and short list those saws that meet it.

Only knowing that you are looking for a good tablesaw I suggest the you look at the Ridgid 3650 / 3660 table saw.

I have had mine for 3 years now, and continue to be extremely happy with it. It is heavy cast iron, good motor, belt driven blade, 36" rip fence, very good solid fence, repeatable accuracy and good price. I have not had to make any adjustments yet. The only downside is the dust collection port is not as good as it should be.

When I was researching mine, I asked friends and co-workers what saw they had and found that this was common, so I was able to go a check a few out that had some use on them.

If your budget and shop space are unlimited, then there probably are better saws available, but still I think you would be remiss if you did not look at if only to cross it off your list.