Table Saw Question...

[Buster]

I am in the market for a table saw. This will be my first saw, and for that matter my first stationary tool. My first project will be to build some cabinets to clean up my shop space. In the future I intend to continue on with my hobby of furniture making.

I am looking at this as my first saw, one that will get me through the first

5 or 6 years... long enough for me to decide if this is a life-long hobby. I want a quality saw that will not frustrate me or be an un-necesarry danger to me. I do not have the shop location wired for 220, and at this time I don't intend to do it anytime soon. The saw will have to be somewhat mobile as I have to share the 'shop' with a car during the cold Canadian winters...

I had initially decided on the General 185 Contractor Saw. I have read good reviews about it, and it came recommended by a much more knowledgeable friend. Recently I noticed the General 220 'Hybrid' Saw being offered. Does anybody have any working experience with this saw? Does anybody reccomend one over the other?

I have read various negative postings regarding the AMPs on the motor and the 2HP claim, and was wondering what the opinion here was. My understanding was the General uses a two pulley system which accounts for the greater horsepower rating....

The reason for my shift in thought here is that (correct me if I'm wrong) the 220 being in a cabinet should have less vibration and of course have better dust collection. If the motor is indeed 2HP, then the 220 should be a supperior saw? Even if the saw is slightly less than 2HP is it worth the trade off?

Any help would be great.

Buster

[CNT]

Get the JET SuperSaw to start. I have the DeWalt and like it a lot!

Chuck

[cm]

Buster,

The General sounds like a winner.

I have had a Jet contractor saw for about five years now and have been very pleased with it. It has a great fence and plenty of power. We use the saw in our vintage trailer restoration business. I think I paid about $475.00 for it.

Good luck,

AZCRAIG

[toller]

I usually encourage people to buy inexpensive or used equipment if they are new to woodworking. However, I get the sense that you can afford the difference. Then yeh, the extra HP and the better DC make life much more pleasant.

[James "Cubby" Culbertson]

Ditto the Jet Contractor saw. I've gotten excellent mileage from mine. I've moved up to a full blown cabinet saw but still have the Jet. Hate to see the thing go!

[Lew Hodgett]

I'd suggest the Delta Contractor's saw complete with a Unifence and the wheeled dolly option, which I have found does as good a job as i need none; however, you have products available in Canada that may be equally as good or better.

A word of advice.

Any saw on the face of the earth that you drive under a Unifence will get the job done.

The fence is the most important part.

Lew

[Jeff Gorman]

"Buster" wrote

Buster might care to look at my web site - Circular Sawbench Safety - Buying a Circular Sawbench.

Above all, I think I would try to establish how well the crown guard (hood, Murricans) automatically lifts as work is fed to the saw, suspecting that this could be the prime reason why people become frustrated and fail to use this vital part of the machine.

Jeff G

[Robert Bonomi]

The Ryobi BT3100 is in incredible 'bang for the buck' bargain. It doesn't take kindly to being 'beat up on', but with merely 'reasonable' care, it will do a fine job.

Beyond that, you will _not_ go badly wrong with *any* of the major-brand full-size "Contractor" saws: General, (separate from "General International") Grizzly, DeWalt, Delta, Jet, etc. are all quality tools.

A 'benchtop', or a 'job-site' saw will give increasing amounts of frustration, as you pass the 'beginner' level. You _can_ do quality work with one of those saws, but you spend a lot more time "adjusting" the tool, vs one of the 'better' saws.

At _equivalent_ loading, there really isn't a whole lot of difference in cutting between a good 'cabinet' saw, and a good 'contractor'. The big difference is you _can_get_ bigger power capacity in the cabinet saw. *IF* you need it. A distant second consideration is that cabinet saws tend to be heavier / more massive than contractor saws. more mass is better -- the stability is improved. They're somewhat easier to tune/tweak/adjust, and tend to hold the settings longer than a contractor type -- as in 'lifetime' vs. merely 'years'. :) And there _is_ the 'convenience factor' of better dust-collection or at least "containment" (if you're not using an actual Dust Collector).

The *best* advice: find a way to get 'hands on' with as many of the 'candidates' as you can. You'll discover "little" things that make a significant difference _to_you_. Then buy accordingly.

[Charlie Self]

I see a lot of people recommend Jet saws: Jet makes great table saws, but when you are looking at a General, I cannot understand the reason for such a recommendation. General tools are among the best on the market. Their web site, though, is not good. The hybrid saw will probably outlast you, and the two HP rating means it will have enough power for anything almost any hobbyist will ever need. I don't know what kind of fence it has, but look for some kind of Biesemeyer clone for best results. The pulley system doesn't determine HP. It does determine the transfer efficiency of what HP is produced.

Check out the Jet saws, of course, and check out Delta and whatever else is available in Canada, but in the meantime, keep an eye on that General. The odds are good you'll be very happy with it.

[Upscale]

Don't know what prices you've found on General tablesaws, but General's web page has some specials going on.

[mrcomp_ca]

Buster,

I was in the exact same position as you were only 1 year ago. I aksed questions, read informaiton and reread the same information. However, I didn't have enough experience to use the information was receiving. I eventually settled on the General 185. Why...because someone I knew told me it was a good saw, I was able to get a good price and I was under the impresion it was the best saw I could afford. I have only built three projects, but I have not been disappointed yet.

I knew nothing, but putting it together by myself in a couple of hours.

I under estimated how important it was to take the time to do proper set-up (I eyeballed most things), paid the price (bad cuts, burnt edges) until I took the time to do proper set-up. I guess there really is no teacher like experience. The manual won't help much with this but there is lot's of documentaiton on the net. I used "The Accurate Table Saw" from LV and it helped a great deal.

I have never used the 220 so I can't comment. But I do like my 185.

Forgive me if this information is below your current abilities. Sean

[Bob G.]

Maybe this is true because I know there are some pretty crappy saws on the face of this planet...

BOY DO I AGREE.....>

I love my Biesemeyer ... after over 10 years of use it has proven your point time after time...

Bob Griffiths

[Hax Planx]

I believe we call it a blade guard over here, your lordship. If you need to resort to provincial name-calling to get attention, you might at least have the courtesy to expand your vocabulary of American terms to equal your vocabulary of offensive slang. But I've heard that courtesy isn't what it used to be over there, something which you so aptly demonstrate.

[Dave]

For the money it will be hard to beat the Grizzly G0444Z contractors saw. It has an excellent fence. I got one with the extension and legs. I am VERY satisfied with it.

[Patrick Conroy]

"Buster" wrote in news:bX3ue.1773789$6l.783892@pd7tw2no:

I have the Jet "Hybrid" for some of the same reasons - shop wasn't wired for 220V back then. It is now. The Jet and DeWalt claim 1 3/4HP - but seems to me so many other factors would kick in before you noticed a difference between 1,75 and 2HP.

Yeah - I think you could expect vibration to be less on this. Dust collection should be better too. Nota Bene: I have an early Jet hybrid and the dust collection is **awful**.

[Lawrence Wasserman]

If you can locate one of the more recent issues of "Workbench" magazine there was a review of these types of saws that I believe included the General. I don't recall that it was a particularly in-depth ariticle but at least it has some information.

[TheNewGuy]

Buster,

I own the 185, and have used it for about a year now. As a newbie woodworker, it is certainly my own limitations, not the saw's, "holding me back" at this point. And it will be that way for a long time I imagine, even as my skills grow. I can't think I'll "outgrow" this saw in 6 years time.

I had a friend help me with setup. He owns a PM-66, and he was quite impressed with the fit and substansiveness of the 185. And I don't think you'll find a better stock miter gauge on ANY other contractor's saw; cast iron, solid, and spring-loaded bearings in the "T" make for a rock-solid fit in the track.

I did get the 52" rails with it. There was some hole-misalignment on the front of the TS top where the front rail was to attach; I had to simply enlarge two of the predrilled holes on the TS to get proper alignment. Otherwise, the saw went together easily. The owner's manual sucks. Not that you couldn't figure it out yourself, but if you have any woodworker friends who have setup a saw before, try to lure them over for an afternoon!

Regarding the General 220, while I haven't used one I'll just make two points: it is certainly better in dust "retention" than the 185, but you'll want a DC just the same; so don't go thinking that it'll make any difference in your DC needs. If you do opt for it for other reasons, get the "C" version with the General "T" fence - not the base model w/ the aluminum fence. The General "T" is a good Bies clone (some will disparage it because it doesn't have easily removable faces, but you can build a carriage that rides over it / clamps on with all the fancy t-track / holddowns you want...). I can't speak to better vibration dampening on the 220 either; I have yet to put on the link belt I bought for my 185; one of these days...

... again, a year ago (when I bought), here in the States, the GI 185 was definitely the best bang for the buck. Things might be different for you up there.

Regards, Chris

[Charlie Self]

Actually, what the Yurpeans use on table saw blades is properly called a crown guard, both for its shape and for its action, which is far more precise and efficient than the U.S./Canadian "blade guard".

[Pig]

Geeze, what an uncalled for ad hominem driveby. FYI, IMHO Jeff has more courtesy and grace in his pinkie than most Murricans have altogether, including me. A visit to his website and a google of his posts on the wreck will demonstrate to any thinking person that he is willing to share in a thoughtful and meaningful way his wealth of experience, and if you don't get his sense of humor as expressed in his OP above, then why not just leave it alone and stop giving Murricans a bad name by bashing this particular gent.

Mutt

[Dave Balderstone]

Hey, Hax... Who pissed in your Corn Flakes this morning?

I'm just sayin'...

djb