No, Leon, I haven't. As I've said, I'm not questioning the quality of the SawStop but rather the "consensus". And not the consensus of just the "wreck". There must be a market for the other "quality" table saws or the SawStop would put its competitors out of business. (and not saying that won't happen either) ;-)
The last time this issue surfaced I mentioned that *if* I bought one the first time that brake busted my saw and blade I would trade it for a saw without the feature. In other words there's more to the equation than saving a finger. For me.
I have a Unisaw with which I am well pleased...except for dust collection. *If* I should decide that I want a new table saw I can tell you right now that dust collection will be the deciding factor after comparable quality.
Increased profit could be it. One thing to consider however and unless something has changed in the last year, Woodcraft does not stock SawStop industrial saws in their stores. They have plenty of the rest but when I ordered my industrial version I got the distinct impression that SawStop wanted it that way. My saw came directly from SawStop to Woodcraft to me only after I ordered. Additionally one cannot order an industrial version from a dealer that is not in his or her state. You have to order from a dealer in your state. As far as the Pro and Contractor versions go you can order them from whom ever yu like.
So with that in mind if buying an industrial SS there is no advantage in delivery time, all things being equal, over another brand that is sold by a the same dealer.
Repeating what I have mentioned in another part of this thread, there have been numerous publications with comparisons and the SawStop tends to come out on top. I did a lot of Googling prior to spending $4k for my SS. And as I mentioned above, Delta is almost there and or was a couple of years ago. I saw a video of their come back from the dead production facility. A brand new facility IIRC. It at the time a couple of years ago appeared to be about the size of a 15~20 bar automotive repair shop. I was rather shocked.
I don't think you would have any worries with the brake busting the saw. The same contractor saw gets demonstrated time and again during most wood working shows. If the contractor and pro versions operate in the same manner there is a release of the arbor assembly as it drops below the table surface. Energy is absorbed by the brake and the rubber bumper stop at the bottom of the drop.
If the contractors saw can take the rigors of the brake engaging time and again I seriously doubt that any thing in the industrial version would be at risk with all of its mass under the table.
Possibly another economic factor too. Lawyers tend to drag everyone into the suits that has loose change in their pockets. "Woodcraft knowingly sold this XYZ brand to my client knowing he could cut his penis off if he jumped on top of the saw"
Yes that could explain why they are pushing that particular product but I'm sure that you could still buy any brand that they carry and or have a relationship with if the customer wanted that. Either way the customer is getting a quality product if he is buying SawStop. It is not like they are pushing some thing like what you would find at Harbor Freight or Sears as their line of preference.
I can't speak for woodcraft. They are a bit pricy, but do sell some quality products. And any retail store that sells to a demographic that is up the ladder from hobbyists or home repair guys wants to project an image. With products to match that image.
I find it interesting that a store is selling a quality product and you reduce this whole marketing and retailing approach as a "selling by fear" sales tactic. Maybe it is just a sell a quality product because it makes sense for our demographic and targeted market. Remember, you can get the cheaper saw many other places. Not that many places to get a SawStop.
You seem strongly emotionally involved in this. Do you do this kind of thing with other retailers? Or do you just reserve this kind of hostility for Woodcraft? Or is it a SawStop thing?
You have to remember that the retail world is changing, big time. Office Max is substantially reducing their stores. They do half of their business online now. And almost a quarter of their in store sales is selling computer printing supplies. You don't need a big box store to sell printing supplies. Radio Shack is closing one quarter of their stores. I don't see a future for Radio Shack. Retail is tough, and becoming more so every day.
Now, I don't want to make you consider things that you find totally objectionable. But consider this. If Woodcraft fallowed a strategy that you would find pleasing, they very well may be out of business in the near future. You have to let them do what they have to survive in a increasing competitive environment.
I also feel left out in various businesses product offerings. There has been a number of innovative restaurants that have opened near me that I just loved. I loved the food, environment, pricing, etc. And the all went out of business. I do like barbeque joints though. I can bitch and complain all I want. But guess what? I am not part of a demographic that would support such a an eating establishment. If there were more people like me, those place would still be in business. Without sufficient numbers, these bright, creative ideas perish.
Huh? Of the four places I frequent in the Atlanta area, three carry SawStop. The same retailers who carry Festool. ;-) Even Amazon carries SawStop (sold by Amazon, not one of the other three).
Well Larry's comments are incorrect too. The $3K SawStop is the Professional Cabinet saw with 52" fence and 3hp motor, not the Contractors saw. And the Industrial, original, in the common set up is $4K. less with a shorter than 52" fence.
That is interesting. I guess I'm not really in their demographic. I'm not presently in the market for any Festool products or any new $300 hand planes. The only reason I go more than once of year is because of a carving group that meets there. I do take an interst in the way that all people who market or sell to me, do it. For instance, the observation you made above adds to my insight. When I wrote, I was not thinking of them projecting an image. My guess was that they were putting some of those products there to make their other prices appear lower (that's a common tactic too). Generally, given the opportunity to pay to project an image myself, I go the other way. Others get caught up in labels, etc. We weren't all born with a silver spoon...
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