Table Saw purchase question

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On 3/11/2014 8:09 AM, Leon wrote:

It will still be a cost-benefit decision. Those who can afford $1000 *maximum* for a saw will be limited in what they choose. A business, however, will have a different perspective.
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On 3/11/2014 11:45 AM, Max wrote:

That is absolutely true but not unique in it's own right. Many people are not going to be able to afford any saw that they buy regardless of price and will cut back somewhere else. Unfortunately the economy is in the shape it is in mostly because a majority of the people bite off more than they can chew and are absolutely not prepared for a rainy day. Then there is inflation which makes most every thing go up in price and very seldom adds any value.
SawStop technology is not unique in driving up prices. The automobile industry is a prime example of safety costing all of us more.
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On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 03:25:02 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

You really have to prove that you're an asshole every day, don't you?

You're full of shit, as usual.
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On 3/10/2014 7:36 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Yes there are LOT"S not to like. Given that, there is a thing or two that is of benefit to some one.

Gass lobbied to have his technology mandated after being turned down and or the deals fell through prior to him actually manufacturing the product himself.
And on another note it could be assumed that given the methods he used to bring the product to market and the fact that he is a patent attorney might dictate that his product be damn well effective and no cost cutting measures be used if there is possibility of those measures affecting the performance of the saw. Imagine the vengeance that would be directed toward him or his company should there be and injury and any proof of tampering or change of design to save production costs.

In my case more of a deduction. Given my previous profession and decision making on a daily basis there was not time for emotion. I still think this way, for the most part, and probably why I have a bit of a different attitude towards the SawStop political side.

That would be an assumption but not a fact. Because no contracts are in effect no one knows what might have been. Believing/thinking that he had no intention of being flexible during a real negotiation would be like a similar assumption that the company that he actually did have a deal with was strong armed by the other manufacturers to not go through with the agreement. A reasonable assumption but only an assumption.

I do believe that cost was the prime factor. BUT not necessarily only the cost of paying Gass. There are many many other costs that could have and probably were factored in. What would the cost be for additional product liability for something that they had not developed themselves. What would be the cost of having double inventory and manufacturing capability for the saws with and with out technology. What would tooling cost to reinvent their product to be compatible with the technology. There are countless down the road expenses that come into play other than simply the cost of to use the technology. Changing your product is quite expensive in itself. You really don't see many changes in these type products through out the life of the basic design. The Unisaw saw is quite old and kept it's basic design for many many years. Only recently did Delta change that design drastically and it appears that the new design is not on every ones wish list. Sales of the old Unisaw design were probably better than the new Unisaw design.

Well there is no proof actually. That would be another assumption. Do you know exactly why the deal fell through? Have you seen the written reason that the company used to withdraw from the agreement?

Yes it does seem to look that way. And my thoughts just above, about why the deal/deals fell through, are just an assumption.

Not sure I follow, could you be more explicit?
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wrote:

The one that bought the congresscritter, perhaps. Liberty is better for everyone else, though.

Thanks. I took it to mean that you didn't like his marketing (making) the saw himself, after he couldn't find anyone else to license his patent. I didn't make any sense. ;-)

just his tactics.

weighting = different answer. That's "emotional" and yours wasn't?

My conclusion from the writings at the time. It's the best information we'll ever have.

Disagree, well, after what it would take to actually produce and market the saw with the brake.

Sure, those are costs but I don't think they're on the same order of magnitude. Did the survivors of seat belt accident victims sue Ford and GM after seat belts were installed? "Best practices" and all that.

About the same time as the SawStop patents (2002). I'd love the new design but, like the SawStop, it's well beyond what I was willing to pay. There is no way it's worth 2x the old design.

refuse? A former boss taught me the meaning of the "existence theorem", long ago. ;-)

control of my safety? Are soda drinks next?
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On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 13:18:27 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Well, as usual, when you've got nothing of value to add to the discussion, you spiral down into insulting rhetoric. It must be really difficult to be you. My condolences.
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On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 20:53:30 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

Well, as usual, you've shown your true colors. Please killfile me or STFU.
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On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 13:18:27 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Fact is, you are a liar. You twist what's been said, ignore pertinent statements and outright lie when it serves your purpose. Coupled with your ongoing senility, any discussion where there's even the slightest disagreement, you go off the deep and start fabricating bullshit.
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On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 05:43:04 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

You can't even read, moron.

You're lying. Again. Still. Again, if you don't like what you think I write, why do you torture yourself by reading it? You must be as stupid as I've said to put yourself through that much pain.
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On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 13:03:10 -0400, none wrote:

That's the low end Sawstop. The original is about $4500/
--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014

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On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:23:29 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

His whole example was done to lie. It's his MO.
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On 3/10/2014 11:24 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Well Larry's comments are incorrect too. The $3K SawStop is the Professional Cabinet saw with 52" fence and 3hp motor, not the Contractors saw. And the Industrial, original, in the common set up is $4K. less with a shorter than 52" fence.
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On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 12:24:05 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I read your crap for its entertainment value. You don't like what I post? Take some of your own advice and don't read it.
Not that I expected anything different, but you really are a senile old fool aren't you?
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On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 03:15:05 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

You're lying again. You can't even read.

More proof of your lies. Keep it up. You'll prove to everyone else what I've known for a long time.
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On 3/9/2014 10:28 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:
some snip...but..

And that's a consensus or just an opinion. ;-)
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On 3/9/2014 2:13 PM, Max wrote:

It is a consensus. Most all TS reports, with the SawStop involved, most always place the SawStop as a top quality machine.
Simply the arbor/trunnion assembly is quite HD on all models when compared to the competition.
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On 3/9/2014 5:26 PM, Leon wrote:

I'm part of the consensus. I don't envision myself ever getting a new tablesaw, but if I did, it would be SawStop. Well made tool and the safety is a bonus.
That said, if I ever opened a hot dog cart, I'd cut them with a knife as the SawStop would be too time consuming for that operation.
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On 3/9/2014 4:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

And too expensive. LOL
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On 3/9/2014 3:26 PM, Leon wrote:

If it's a consensus how do other manufacturers manage to stay in business?
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On 3/9/2014 8:06 PM, Max wrote:

By making sales of tablesaws. While the consensus is Lamborghini is a fun car to drive to work, most of us can't afford one for an every day driver. Sears still sells a bunch of the $299 saws to people that would rather have a $1500 SawStop.
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