Table Saw Opinion Needed.

I'm in the market for a half decent quality 10" table saw. I need at least a 20" rip capability. I'm just a garage hobbiest and it will receive minimal use but I do appreciate quality and hate to buy junk but if it can do a decent job, I'm happy.
Could someone in the know look at these 2 saws and give your opinion.
http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e 6&py4
http://www3.sears.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?categoryId 102&catalogId001&storeId001&langId=-1&rrc=1&productId7837664&pe
I'm looking for a reasonable middle ground between 'decent' quality and cost. 250.00 USD is really my limit.
Any and all opinions appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Sean.
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http://www3.sears.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?categoryId 102&catalogId001&storeId001&langId=-1&rrc=1&productId7837664&pe
If that's all you can afford, go for it and make the best of it. But you can't get a decent quality saw for $250 unless you find a widow who hasn't heard of ebay. How did you come up with the $250 figure? Sometimes I set some arbitrary budget number before I do all of my research, and it turns out to be off-base. If it is an optional purchase, waiting until you can comfortably expend more money for decent equipment might be worth considering.
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ATP wrote:

I absolutely agree. I have to say every time I've bought a cheap tool I've ended up regretting it every time I used it. It is absolutely amazing how much more capable quality tools are.
In this fellow's case, I'd definitely say look for used. Classified ads, for-sale newsgroups, bulletin boards at the grocery store... I've seen a lot of decent big tools for sale lately in the North Carolina area; I couldn't say for anywhere else. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a lathe or bandsaw lately (which is all I "need" at this point).
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@XXXXcarolina.rr.com
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hasn't
I've
much
lot of

say for

(which
I was able to find a unisaw in excellent condition for $400, on ebay from a local seller. Three phase but I have plenty of VFD's already.
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http://www3.sears.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?categoryId 102&catalogId001&storeId001&langId=-1&rrc=1&productId7837664&pe
If that is your limit, either saw will do. they are not the best, but the price is right. I had a Craftsman and gave it away when I bought my Delta Contractor's saw (that was $800 though)
You have to start someplace. While it is short on performance compared to my present saw, I was able to make a lot of nice things with it. Setup takes more time, crosscutting width is limited, etc. If you are making bookcases, pine shelves, and the like, it will do the job. Do invest in a good blade though. Something like a Freud Diablo will be a big step up.
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Perfectly good contractors saws regularly sell used for about $250 (about $500 new). Assuming you get a sound one, you will be much happier with it than with something like your links.
You have to watch the classified ads pretty closely. Around here anything decent is gone the first day; it took me a few months before I called on one that wasn't already sold; but I am delighted with what I got.
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proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

and be able to judge a good purchase from a goose purchase....how? ***************************************************** I know I am wrong about just about everything. So I am not going to listen when I am told I am wrong about the things I know I am right about.
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wrote:

Aha! That is why I won't buy used. I will buy many things used, but I do not know enough about ww tools. Too many variables that I add to the equation with my "technique" for me to increase the chances of a tool issue causing problems. After all, consider all the posts here about problems with NEW tools - even expensive ones form the "top" companies. I post this comment not just for the OP but also for those of you who regularly -- and with the best of intentions -- suggest newbies purchase used tools. Hand power tools, yes. Maybe some bench tools. But among the power tools I would not buy used at this point in the learning curve: TS, jointer, planer, and probably a BS. FWIW. -- Igor
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vaguely

I belong to this really interesting woodworking group (www.diablowoodworkers.com) In that group of generally very nice people are all sorts of folks, quite experienced in the ways of tools, new and old, willing to help a new user in evaluating and purchasing tools. Quite frequently, there will be an email broadcast to the group, that some one has a used blurfl for sale, with pictures, at such and such a price. Usually because of an upgrade. Buying a piece of used equipment, from someone you know, whose work you've seen, and with whom you've spent some quality time, is a whole different experience.
But if it came to going out to see something from the paper, I could call on at least half a dozen folks, and find at least one who would gladly go check out the new/used toys.
Woodworkers love to spend other peoples' money too.
Patriarch
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On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 06:34:30 GMT, patriarch

Exactly. Lacking such a resource -- which is "invaluable", in a valuable sort of way (I don't want to start a flammable/inflammable debate again) -- I buy new.
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vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
poor table saws are poor saws. do you really need a TABLE SAW?

***************************************************** I know I am wrong about just about everything. So I am not going to listen when I am told I am wrong about the things I know I am right about.
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I agree with previous posts - you need to look for used equipment. I am not as gloomy as some, however. If you live in or near a fairly large city you should be able to find one with a little patience and persistence. I live near Wichita, Ks (about 400 to 500,000 local population). Between the newspaper and PennyPower used Deltas show up fairly regularly in the $250 to $300 range. Lots of Craftsman saws too but I would stick with Delta or Grizzly if possible.
Even if you don't live in a larger town, check out classifieds via newspaper web sites in towns that are close enough.
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Put some feelers out for used equipment. There can be some good deals out there, you might find an idiot like me that spent 1/2 what a cabinet saw cost trying to turn an old craftsman cast iron top saw into a great saw. I sold an old craftsmen cast iron saw with a systimatic blade, new true 1 1/2 hp motor, link belts and machined pulleys, pals, vega 50"" fence, with a rockler router table dropped in for $300. Some lessons hurt, but I got a great payback on a used unisaw from RWM.
MikeM

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As a long-time purchaser of used equipment, I can say that the money I've saved over buying new has more than paid for the modest time and effort needed to clean/recondition/repair/rebuild the used. I have yet to make a terrible purchase--one that required even half the several hunnert I saved per tool--and I now have a shop of decent quality older iron which perform to the degree of precision I need. More than that, in reconditioning I get an intimate look at the machine I'll be using, a machine with which I am literally putting life and limb at risk. The education is invaluable.
Some hand tools can be used as they come out-of-the-box, but most (new or used) machine tools require more effort (setup/tuneup). From my experience, and most of what I've read on the wreck and elsewhere, the setup and tuneup on new and used equipment is about the same--if you are careful when buying.
John White's book from Taunton Press, "Care and Repair of Shop Machines" is a good reference. I recommend it, even if you purchase new. Good luck.
Dan
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For 20" ripping, you really should have something bigger than a 'benchtop' type saw. (_those_ you can get as inexpensively as circa US$90, and worth about what you pay for 'em :)
Until the new models that came out this summer, Craftsman's saws have *not* been worth serious consideration for a long time, for anything approaching quality work. If you happen to find a used Craftsman; from Korean-war vintage through about 1973 construction, that's a different story.
The Delta you're looking at has a bunch of drawbacks/limitations, too. First off, it will be _gawdawful_ noisy. Because it's a 'universal moter', and a form of 'direct drive'.
'Decent quailty' 10" saws _start_ at about US$500, new. and go up (_way_ up!) from there. "Good" contractor saws tend to list in the US$800 and up range.
There is =one= notable exception to the above -- and which _is_ worth serious consideration -- the Ryobi BT-3100. It lists for just under US$300, however. It is a *MUCH* better saw than the stuff costing not much less. Hell, it's a better saw than a lot of the saws costing a couple of hundred dollars _more_!
Depending on your knowledge of tools and machinery, you could also consider looking into the used equipment market.
Depending on where you're located, decent older stuff may be available, at a reasonable price, on a fairly regular basis. The good deals do tend to sell quickly, so you have to co-ordinate your searching with when the for-sale ads come out. *and* you have to know what you're looking for/at. Expcect a fair amount of clean-up, 'tuning', etc., on any bargain older saw. Not necessarily 'tear down and rebuild', but definitely 'de gunk', 'oil and lube', and tune-up/alignment. You should figure on a new blade, too. If the one that comes with it (if any) is 'usable', consider that a 'plus'.
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