Table or Mitre Saw?

No, it's a chop saw. The general problems with chop saws still apply

- they're just not much use.

They're _great_ for shopfitting. Lots of quick crosscuts and crude butt joints in ready-finished softwood. For anything else though, they're too inflexible. You just don't need to cut all the way through narrow timber very often, and if you do, a handsaw is lighter, nearly as quick, and keeps you warmer.

If you go "up a notch"

formatting link
(Bosch has a clearer picture)
formatting link
find the "sliding mitre saw". This is much more useful. There's a horizontal slide mechanism so they can cut wider timber, but also there's usually a depth stop so that they can cut halfway through something and leave a flat surface. With that, you can start making the complex joints that take real time and effort otherwise.

Yes. There's no way they can be otherwise. It's for slicing up trees! What do you _think_ it's going to do to you ?

This is one good reason why I don't want you to go out and buy a table saw. You're far too likely to injure yourself with it. There are a whole load of 99 quid table saws in the big DIY sheds that I just don't think are safe for untrained new users to carry home and use, or that they're particularly safe for anyone to use.

Table saws are dangerous. To use it safely you need to know how to do so - now we're not _born_ knowing this, so we need to learn it. How ? Usenet is good, but it has limits ! Really you need to be shown by someone who does know (most users don't) and who can show you how to do this with a good saw. It's always easier to learn with good tools, then you can better appreciate what's good or bad about the cheaper ones.

There are two main risks with a table saw. One is sticking your hand in the blade. This is hard to do with modern saws, because the guards (even on cheap saws) are pretty good. Cheap modern DIY saws are often better equipped than older commercial saws.

The best remaining way to stick your hand into a blade is by putting your hand on the timber and pushing _both_ into the blade. Very common mistake, particularly when the blade is hidden halfway in the timber and not visible through the top. You avoid this by using a push stick, not your hands. I feed timber by hand, but _never_ let my hands leave the edge of the saw's table (on my saw this keeps them a safe distance from the blade, even at most stretch)

The second risk is much less obvious. It's called kickback. The saw turns into a catapult and throws the timber at you. This is too complicated to explain in text, because there are several reasons it might happen. Some of the causes are _not_ obvious and as you don't know them already (how could you ?) I'd be concerned about setting you loose armed with a saw and no knowledge. If you can find a copy, Ian Kirby's "The Accurate Table Saw" is a good book to start by reading.

In general, I wouldn't like to use a small table saw. As I posted a few days ago, I want something powerful enough to just cut the timber, not turn it into a wrestling match. Predictable power is much safer than unpredictability.

I'd rather you used it like a good amateur. "Professional" means you're getting paid for it, not that you're any good. There's a lot of dodgy stuff done on building sites and most "professionals" are working at the low end, not the high end.

Reply to
Andy Dingley
Loading thread data ...

Agreed on the use of the table saw as the preferred method Andy, but I disagree on the danger and the intended use of the miter saw. It's designed to cut down through wood at any angle. It does not care nor does it know which direction the wood is oriented in. The saw is equally well suited to cross cut miters through the width of a board as it is across the width of one. There's no increase in danger in this operation. It's a common use of a miter saw and a very reasonable use as well.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

The problem is that for Sam's box, you're going to have a long mitre on a short piece (actually narrow, along the board). This piece is even shorter than the length of the cut. As it's a compound mitre saw you could do this, but you've an awkward problem in holding it down.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Correct. Ignore that brain fart Andy. Thank you.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

Sam- woodworking is dangerous. accept this.

hardwood is about as dense as bone- so any tool that can cut wood can cut bone. keep your fingers away from the cutters.

power tools do stuff real fast. faster than your nervous system can react to- so when things go wrong they happen before you can realize it and pull your hand away, or duck, or dodge.

that router you bought can kill you. one of the worst shop accidents I've had was with a router. I still have the scars 12 years later. when a router bites you it turns flesh into hamburger- there's nothing to stitch back in, because it's spread all over the walls.

so how come there are any woodworkers left alive to post on this newsgroup?

Reply to
bridger

I suspect his best-bang-for-the-buck solution will be a block plane and a shooting board.

Reply to
bridger

Thanks to an email from Sam I now realise this isn't what he's making at all. Sorry about that - I thought you were mitring the side joints. The top edges of the box sides _are_ cut at an angle though.

OK, so the saw is still a bad idea 8-) I'm all for buying specialist tools, but with 30 quid of chop saw just to make two cuts, you could _hire_ someone to come and saw it for you!

Yes, for the cut you are making, the chop saw would do it, But so would a hand saw, particularly when you're making 45° cuts and you can use a mitre box.

For your joints, butts have a similar problem to mitres - there's no positive location, so they're a nuisance to clamp up. Investigate cutting the rebated lap with your router.

This is also quite a small box you're making. Small stuff is tricky because errors show up as larger. Things about a foot or two on each side are often easier.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

formatting link

formatting link

What are these? The Nu-Tool's "budget line"?

I have my own rule: when something very sharp travels at X thousand r.p.m. - DON'T buy the cheapest one there is!

FoggyTown

Reply to
Mike Girouard

At today's exchange rates, those are tremendous bargains if they are good quality machines; buy them both. Otherwise, which one you want depends on what you want to do. You can't use a miter (US spelling) saw for ripping. You can crosscut with the table saw, but setup is a nuisance. There is also a question of space; a table saw is a big space hog needing lots of room for infeed and outfeed, and probably on one side. Try to match the tool to the task. By the way, if they are cheap (as opposed to inexpensive) buy the miter saw - less chance to hurt yourself.

Steve

formatting link
>>> b) a table saw - £40

formatting link
>>>>> Cheers,

Reply to
Steven and Gail Peterson

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:28:04 +1100, "Greg Millen" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Great! Let go of the bloody cheap shit power tools, and get better hand tools.

Reply to
Old Nick

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:07:21 -0000, "SB" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

OK. I thought you were a troll. But you have started replying to answers to your questions without calling names . So you appear not to be a troll. My apologies.

But I feel you keep chasing the wrong things.

You appear to be starting out, and/or on a limited budget.

Unless you simply want : - nice toys OR - a shed full of stuff that impresses your friends (and they would not want to know much, if they were impressed by what you are asking about) and then either clutters up the shelves or gets thrown out later,

let go of the idea of all these cheap mounted power tools, and especially the bench/table ones. If you are just starting woodwork, then get other tools.

Clamps, chisels, more clamps, a hand saw, maybe even a circular saw, later, a hand mitre saw, glue(s). Plane(s) and a shooting board. An orbital sander. A mounted circular sander or maybe belt/circular sander for finishing mitres. Make jigs. And there are three very important tools. Skill, knowledge and patience.

First power tools should be a handheld circ saw, and a router. Learn to use them properly, and treat them with respect approaching, but not entering, fear. You can do a lot of work with straight edges and these tools.

There are hand mitre saws around that cut really nice mitres. Crikey! I have cut quite reasonable mitres with a hacksaw, by eye! There was a time when all work was done without any power tools at all.

Learn the work. Wait until you can afford at least decent table saws etc. All you are showing is crappy, dangerous, inaccurate junk.

Table saws and other specialty saws should be special. They also do _NOT_ make the woodworking job _that_ much easier. They make a very small portion of the total job of wood selection, design, cutting, fitting, gluing, sanding, finishing etc a bit easier, sometimes. Take for instance a table saw. Unless you have good, straight wood, you will simply be frustrated, or have a fight to get a good result. Read all the posts about why the cut was wrong, or the edges not parallel etc.

You are not doing dozens of cuts here, if you are making projects at the start. Getting the wood, fitting, clamping and gluing, then finishing a project will mean that you make maybe ten cuts, then spend days finishing the job off. In addition, each of those cuts will probably be different and you have to reset the machinery anyway.

Also, the idea of making woodwork, as a hobby, as fast and cheap as possible is crazy. I know. I have done it, and have seen many other DIY guys do the same. The magazines used to encourage the "build a whole dining setting from scrap in a weekend" idea a bit. Now the "DIY" shows on TV let you do it in 5 minutes! Using no materials at all! .

That should not be the point of woodwork. You will make a mess, get frustrated, and not be fast anyway. The doing of the thing is the point, at least until you turn pro. Then making enough money is the point.

Reply to
Old Nick

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.