I'm building a simple 6 ft high 10' x 10' storage building in my
backyard; wood frame, 4" concrete slab foundation, LP SmartSide
paneling atop plywood sheathing for the exteriorm to be located in
central Oklahoma. The interior will be unfinished (raw studs), and
will have no utilties..just a simple building to hold lawn mowers and
Two questions I'd like to offer:
1. Is it overkill to wrap the plywood sheathing on a storage shed like
this with something like Tyvec before applying the siding? Unless I'm
an idiot (which is certainly possible), I've seen nothing from LP that
shows a *requirement* for any kind of barrier between the sheathing
and the SmartSide paneling...
2. This will be framed out of 2x4 lumber (PT sill plates even though
it won't be touching the ground), and I plan to use 3/8" hot-dipped
galvanized (non-aluminum) wedge anchors to secure the sill plates to
the concrete - the question is how many per wall? It would seem that
three would be about right - one approximately one foot from each
corner, then one in the middle (each wall other than the front, where
the door will go).
Hope the questions don't sound too dense, just trying to plan ahead
before I start buying and hammering like a madman...
Thanks much for any feedback,
Given the opportunity, I would do it, being anal myself. ;)
And for this application, I would personally prefer 15 lb felt (not "#15",
you will have to make that distinction when ordering and remember that 15 lb
felt requires about twice as much as "#15" to cover the same surface),
instead of Tyvec.
Just my 'druthers with regard to the Tyvec versus felt.
Depending upon your area (hurricane or earthquake prone), I would say that
3/ten foot wall should be sufficient for shed purposes.
Be sure to properly tension the wedge anchors according to the spec sheet.
IME, your concrete needs to be at full strength for wedge anchors to be
effective and you really need to be careful that they are not too close to
the edge of the concrete.
I prefer like material anchor bolts embedded in the concrete for this very
intrepid firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
> I'm building a simple 6 ft high 10' x 10' storage building in my
> backyard; wood frame, 4" concrete slab foundation, LP SmartSide
> paneling atop plywood sheathing for the exteriorm to be located in
> central Oklahoma.
Won't comment on your construction questions; however, if you build
using 4 ft multiples (ie: 8W x 12L' x 8H) to build shed, you will save
material as well as save your back by not having to bend over to get
in the shed.
On May 16, 12:04 pm, email@example.com wrote:
Unless you have serious wind issues you could used OSB instead of
plywood for the sheathing to save a few $ or use T-111 plywood and
skip the siding. No need for the Tyvek at all.
Sounds like your number of anchors is about right depending on the
size of the anchors.
I would make it at least 8' high if code allows to facilitate standing
upright and hanging rakes, shovels, etc.
1) The plywood stiffens the walls tremendously. Remember you will be hanging
stuff on the walls. Never see a shed that did not. As far as OSB, I would
not use it UNLESS you do in fact use the smart side. I built my shed 15
years ago with T11 with still no issues.
2) I did work in multiples of the plywood sizes, and a 8 foot ceiling has
helped in many ways with storage.
3) If you use a peak or barn roof, and leave the eaves open for air, put the
plasic window screening over the openings. Keeps the birds out :)
I built a shed and did not use sheathing at all. I used the Tyvec over
instead of felt to cut down on the odor and to lighten the interior up. I
let-in 1 x 4 cross bracing on all walls and used 12" wide cement fiber
planks for the exterior. Solid as a rock.
I don't think I would wrap between ply and studs --- it's holding a lawn
mower and etc.
But being in an area that is subject to many tornadoes --- I'd either insure
the building once complete or put in more anchors or both.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Thanks for the great replies. I think I'll skip the wrap.
There were several great questions and suggestions along the way, so
if I may, let me offer some "how come's" and "why for's...."
Why not build in multiples of 4? I can't build larger than 10' x 10'
due to residential restrictive covenants, and I want to max out square
Why not build 8' high? If I build a structure that exceeds 10' in
*overall* height - grade to peak - the city will require an excavated,
steel-reinforced concrete footing, and that's WAY overboard for this
kind of project.
Also, if I build the interior at 8' height, that gives me a maximum 2'
height for a roof (to avoid the footing). That, in turn, translates to
just about a 5-pitch roof, and I really don't want to build a roof
quite that shallow.
Everyone's comments are greatly appreciated...please feel free to add
anything else you guys think might be relevant.
Tyvec is mostly to let the building breathe, so moisture can't enter the
wall but moisture in the house can get out. Plywood sheathing/siding will
do about the same thing. In fact, our local building code doesn't require
housewrap when using plywood siding (we didn't use housewrap when we
built our house).
Of course, a shed shouldn't have much moisture in it anyway. At least not
like showering, laundry, and cooking produces.
I'm not familiar with SmartSide paneling, but have you considered just
using a rough sawn plywood (like T-111 without the grooves) for your
sheathing? It can function as both sheathing and siding, saving lots of
money. You could add battens if you want to give it more of an old style
Are you limited to 10'x10' or 100 square feet? An 8'x12' building would
be 96 square feet, very close to that 100 sq/ft limit. My shed is 8x12
and I store a lawnmower, tiller, wheelbarrow, bicycle, gas brushcutter,
chainsaw, a large assortment of rakes and shovels, lawn chemicals, and
much more. Before I built my garage, I kept ladders, a tablesaw, and all
of my woodworking equipment in there too. With a few shelves and hangers,
you can pack a lot of stuff in that small space.
If you went with 8x12, you could have 6/12 pitch on each side of the roof
and still meet the 10 foot height.
Otherwise, you could do a "shed" roof, with a single slope 10' in front
to 7' in back (slightly over 6/12 pitch).
Or, use a "saltbox" design where you have a small roof slope on the
front, and the majority of the slope is on the back side.
Or... Build a gambrel (barn shaped) roof. This will give you maximum
space under the 10' peak.
My barn/woodshop has one layer of 1/2 exterior plywood sheathing and then I
nailed 1 X 2 vertical strips on it to simulate board and batten
construction. No Tyvek or anything else on it. Two primer coats followed by
2 coats of latex house paint and it has held up quite well. After about 10
years I put another 2 coats of latex on it. It's now 23 years old with no
siding problems at all and it looks like I'll get another 3 or 4 years
before I have to paint it again. At the time that I built it I didn't have
the money to do much else, but it's been holding up so well that I'll not
likely ever put the vinyl on it that I had planned for. The inside is
insulated and it's heated/air conditioned most of the year with no moisture
problems showing so far. I don't do steam bending or anything else that
would generate lots of moisture though. The coffee pot is the only
steam/moisture generator other than what my sweat and brain activity
"HerHusband" < firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message
Unfortunately, the covenants expressly state a single building no more
than 10' x 10', not a limit on square footage. One person who lived
across the street from me (albeit several years ago) exceeded this
limit in his building by (IIRC) one foot, and someone raised *&#(*$
about it. My actual exterior "frame" dimsension is 9' 9" x 9' 9",
which allows me 1-1/2" of sheathing, siding, and trim all the way
around, so if some anal-retentive neighbor with nothing better to do
jumps my fence and measures it, it'll meet the requirements.
These limits are about the only time I've ever really wished I had
about a half-acre of land outside the city so I could just build a
true workshop, which is what I need, but can't build on our lot...but
that's another discussion...
I'm just outside city limits of a town that has some simular covenants.
I've seen some creative ways around it. One fellow built a shed that
10' x 10' footprint, but the walls sloped outward. Another built a
normal 10' x 10' building but his eaves on both sides extended nearly to
I can't help thinking that some of this was done just to upset the covenant
Bummer. That "single building" clause would probably rule out building a
couple of 8x8 sheds then... :)
It defeats your purpose, but I wonder if you could build a 10x10 shed with
a basement? Sublevels 1, 2, and 3 maybe? :)
Maybe you could build an underground 20' square shop, then plant a lawn
over the top? Nothing visible to bug the neighbors.
Do you have any restrictions on trailers or a second truck? You could
always pick up a used moving van and use it for storage.
As I mentioned, I'll be siding this with LP SmartPanel over plywood,
and that brings up a question.
The instructions say to install the SmartPanels a minimum of 6" off
the ground/grade, but the concrete pad for this storage building is
actually (very) slightly larger than the building (and the surrounding
grade slopes away from it in all directions), so the bottom edge of
the panel isn't directly over the "ground" per se -- its over
finished, dried, hard concrete. I'm wondering if that 6" rule still
applies. I'm guessing that's for the purposes of avoiding splash, but
given that the ground terraces away from the building, it doesn't seem
If it's still necessary, I presume that implies I need to shorten the
panels to allow what would amount to a 6" bottom exposure of the
plywood sheathing.... I suppose I could just put some trim along that
bottom edge all the way around..to cover it, but it just seems
unnecessary given the way I'm planning to build it..
On May 17, 1:11 pm, email@example.com wrote:
Generally, yes, you want all wood to be at least 6" from the ground, unless
it's pressure treated lumber rated for ground contact. Even then, it's wise
to keep it away from the ground (moisture, insects, etc.).
However, if your slab sticks out farther than the sides of the wall, I
think you're going to have bigger problems. All the water that hits the
slab, or runs down the wall to the slab, is going to be able to "seep"
under the wall and into your shed. Probably not what you're wanting...
Ideally, the sill plate should be pressure treated and bolted to the slab
(it can be the bottom plate of the stud wall if you wish). The siding
should then extend down beyond the sill, overlapping the foundation by
about an inch. In other words, rain running down the wall will get to the
bottom of the siding and drip off to the ground, instead of running down
under the wall framing.
I don't know how much is "slightly larger", but if you're only talking an
inch or so, you might be able to flare the siding out a little at the
bottom so it overlaps the foundation. Or, maybe you could add furring
strips to the plywood to bring the siding flush with the foundation. Of
course, it would be a lot nicer to just size the framing to the size of the
slab in the first place.
You "could" install a large trim board at the bottom (sometimes called a
water table), preferably with flashing to prevent water from seeping down
behind the trim. I'd cut the top edge at a slope to encourage water to run
away. But again, it's better to avoid horizontal joints like that.
You bring up some really good points, so let me see if I can address
some of them.
When I say "slightly larger," I don't think it's probably as bad as
you imagine. The concrete pad is only three inches wider than the
I did this specifically to allow for 1-1/2" of sheathing, siding, and
trim so the finished building will be exactly 10' x 10', and thus no
nosy neighbors can go whining to the HOA.
Now, given that the LP siding will be 3/8", I may have actually a 1/8"
extension of pad beyond the finished edge of the wall.
The sill plates will be made of PT lumber, and I intend to either roll
styro insulation between the pad and the bottom of the plates and/or
seal the outside seam between the plate and the pad. I also intend to
apply some of that black fabric material along and extending slighly
below the bottom edge of the framed wall before the sheathing is
What I think I will do is to actually run a "ring" of cedar trim
around the base of the building all the way around, covering that
troublesome latter 6", then seal the joints around all the trim. The
siding is all pre-primed, so I'll prime the trim and give the entire
building at least one coat of a good exterior latex.
As I think through it, I believe that will probably do as much as can
realistically be accomplished short of having an excavated footing
that rises from the grade, and that would have been a project more
expensive than the building itself...
Hope that makes some degree of sense...
Ongoing thanks to everyone for their continued help and suggestions.
ANY exposed slab is going to be enough to let water in. Just pretend your a
raindrop, and follow the path... :)
At the very least, I would install some Z-flashing at the slab. It's the
stuff made for vertical joints in plywood siding. Slip one edge up under
the last row of siding, and the other edge can overlap the slap. Any water
that runs down the wall would have no where to go but out and down to the
The rolled "sill sealer" works great for that. It compensates for any
variations in the slab and sill plates, and keeps out bugs and whatnot.
If possible, bevel the top edge and let the siding overlap the trim board.
If you can rabbet the top edge to slip behind the siding, even better.
Remember, pretend you're a raindrop... :)
I've had good success with the PL line of polyurethane caulks. You can get
them at Lowes, and probably Home Depot as well.
Caulking is a good "second defense", but it's still better to build the
building so it sheds water naturally.
In any case, have fun building your shed!
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