Spanish Cedar

[joeljcarver]

Has anyone had experience of bent lamination of Spanish Cedar?

If so, how does it behave? I'd like to make chair components using ? ?" slats glued to ?" thickness.

Thanks ....

[Electric Comet]

no experience with spanish cedar what are the traits

but what cedar i have used it seems very inflexible when completely dry

i think the most recent cedar was some dry western red cedar

have never tried bent laminations and i know steam allows amazing bends but have to have a steam setup of course

[woodchucker]

I have not done bent lam, but I found spanish cedar tough to work with because it splits so easily. Make sure it is good and steamed and rubbery .

[Swingman]

IME, you should have no problem doing a bent lamination, as described, with red cedar.

But, don't take anyone's word for it. Do a couple of trial runs from a batch representative of what you will be using.

Why? One of the issues can be springback, and that often varies with the wood.

My bet is you'll be fine.

[bnwelch]

My understanding/recollection is that Spanish Cedar is actually a member of the Mahogany family, not cedar...

[bnwelch]

of the Mahogany family, not cedar...

btw, when I created a red cedar lamination, I soaked the 1/8" strips overni ght, then gradually formed them to their new shape without using any binder . I released the pieces from the form and after allowing them to dry, then glued them up (using thickened epoxy) and clamped them in position. Overall lamination was 10 layers with virtually no rebound effect after release.

[joeljcarver]

of the Mahogany family, not cedar...

Maybe some background is in order -

The original plan was to make six garden chairs from Honduras Mahogany. We made the first two from Mahogany, and that was insanely expensive, so I loo ked for an alternative lumber. I found a wood called "red Grandis" a planta tion grown Australian Eucalyptus (which is grown in Uruguay). That has work ed reasonably well, but the local source has closed down.

I need wood for two more chairs, and I don't want to again the more expensi ve Honduras Mahogany. I haven't been able to find another source for the Re d Grandis.

[Swingman]

Sorry, meant to type "Spanish cedar", not "red" ...

lol

What I said still holds true.

On that note, there seems to be some confusion about which bending technique is being used?

"Bent lamination", as a method that does not usually involve steam; "steam bending is a different method/bending technique altogether.

IME, "bent lamination" should work fine for _Spanish_ cedar, however.

[Electric Comet]

that honduran mahogany is really nice looking

surprised to know there is a eucalyptus that looks comparable

so you have six chairs and three different woods seems like the last wood choice just needs to be close to one of the other two

maybe it is time to repurpose some old furniture from the second hand store or thrift store or garage sale or craigslist

[dadiOH]

African mahogany; specifically, Khaya ivorensis. Particuarly attractice when quarter sawn (ribbon stripe). One source...

Spanish cedar is a relative of mahogany but much softer. I've never bent it but I wouldn't expect any problem were I so inclined.

[joeljcarver]

....t

When I look at them side-by-side, the Red Grandis has a redder cast and the Mahogany looks a bit more yellow. By the way, I think "Red Grandis" may be the commercial trade name the wood is marketed as.

Normally, yes, but the chairs aren't all going to the same recipient. Two for me, two for a friend, and two for a friend's brother-in-law. They won't be seen together.

[joeljcarver]

....

I have steam bent parts for Windsor chairs, but this is strictly glueup.

I've glued up plies of ?" slats and clamped them to a robust form. The bendings are ?" for one shape and ?" for another.

An large proportion of the stock ends up as shavings, An 8/4 plank yields a ?" thick piece. That's a lot of waste for $9.50 per board foot.

[Larry Blanchard]

A friend made an Adirondack chair from Spanish cedar and it was gorgeous. I've used it for the sound board on a hammered dulcimer and it was beautiful there as well - finish was nothing but dewaxed shellac.

[Electric Comet]

i thought it might be

i have some blue gum but did not know there was a rose gum

then that is a different situation now you just need to find some wood suitable for the chair style

i see a lot of nice wood on craigslist and i know a lot never goes up for sale

most pro tree trimmers have guys that take certain species and make furniture or cabinetry

depends what is local on what you can find

but the big question is who gets the honduran mahogany chairs

[Sonny]

?" slats glued to ?" thickness.

No Spanish cedar laminations, here, however....

Did you do bent laminations on the other chairs?

Your finished slats will be (1/8" thick and) 1/2" wide? That's pretty nar row. That narrow of slat should bend fairly easily. How acute will your arc/radius be?

The problem I've found with bent laminations, no matter what wood, is each slat has a tendency to twist, despite careful alignment. One portion of a slat will bend differently, than another portion of the same slat. Most of my BLs have been with salvaged lumber, so new lumber may be a better cho ice for making the slats.

New/newer air dried lumber should bend easily. Try not to use kiln dried lumber, which may be a problem or not an option.

When cutting your slats, try to have the wood be consistent (the wood grain and densities, all along the length, be equal... no knots or near knot are as, no anolalies, if possible).

Not only do a test run, as Karl says, but when you cut your slats, cut seve ral extras. Cut them at least 1/4" (1/2" is better for wider slats) wider than your proposed finished piece. *Shaving/jointing down the assembled unit of a 1/2" wide bent "stick" might be a test in itself.

On your test run, as you bend each slat, listen for small cracking/popping sounds. If you hear many of them, then your wood may have a tendency to s plit, somewhere along its length. I would test compare two or more slats. .. one having been wet over night and one dry. Check the difference (crac king/popping sounds) in each their bending. Spanish cedar should absorb mo isture fairly well, for bending purposes.... *after a little reading here~~

Re Rocker - The backrest arc (bent lamination) on the left (my right) is 1/

8" thick slats, 1" wide oval (finished) crown. I did have some springback of that crown after the chair was completed/constructed. Red maple salva ged wood, which absorbs moisture readily (possibly similar to S. cedar).

I've done several ER cedar laminations... not fun, not always pleased with the results, but results were good enough. No high end type projects. Ced ar was not salvaged, bit had the logs milled.

Final word: Bending those small of slats shouldn't be a problem, IMO.

Sonny

[Jack]

position. Overall lamination was 10 layers with virtually no rebound effect after release.

I wonder if soaking in water helps any? My thought is wood bending requires heat, not water. Steam is used because it gets the wood hot w/o burning it. You can bend wood successfully with just a heat pipe, although burning is a risk. Also, my thoughts are wood is fairly water proof, and soaking, even thin strips, wouldn't penetrate much over night. Soaking in boiling water would do wonders because it heats the wood, elasticizing the "glue" that binds the wood fibers.

My experience with bending 1/8" strips is they generally bend easily, as long as the bend is not severe, and the wood is fairly straight grained and clear of knots. Severe bends I'd go for steam. Really severe and I'd go with air dried, and steam.

Also, cherry looks a lot like mahogany I think, and it bends well.

[Sonny]

Get a round tooth pick and break it in its middle, forming a "V", i.e., leaving the halves/legs joined. Pinch the legs together and stick the "break" on your tongue, to wet it, then place it on a flat surface (table/counter top) and watch what happens.

Sonny

[Dr. Deb]

r of the Mahogany family, not cedar...

e made the first two from Mahogany, and that was insanely expensive, so I l ooked for an alternative lumber. I found a wood called "red Grandis" a plan tation grown Australian Eucalyptus (which is grown in Uruguay). That has wo rked reasonably well, but the local source has closed down.

sive Honduras Mahogany. I haven't been able to find another source for the Red Grandis.

I am surprised your source for Honduran Mahogany is so expensive. Dependin g on where you live, you can find importers who will have some "shorts" of six to seven feet long and save a buck or two per board foot on the cost. My local source for Honduran Mahogany is prices about the same as oak in th e big box stores. Worth a thought. Also you might use this (assuming you have not already) to locate some suppliers in your area.

[bnwelch]

I needed to create a near 180 degree bend. All I can tell you is that it worked for me...

[Jack]

I don't have a tooth pick, but I'm listening... I assume the wood would swell some and bend a bit towards it's original position?

If you have a tooth pick, try soaking it in water overnight, then see if it bends more before breaking. I'm not saying it will or won't, I'm just curious. I do know to make wood really flexible, heat will do it, water or not. Heat pipes are used for this sans water.

Very thin pieces of wood will bend on there own, to very tight radius. For example, shavings from a plane curl up nicely. Thick stuff requires heat, possibly because water alone will not seep in enough to soften the stuff that glues the wood fibers together. I think this is particularly true with kiln dried wood where the glue is really stiff, less so with air dried or green wood.

Soaking a thin strip of cedar in water overnight probably would help, particularly if the cedar were not kiln dried. Soaking wood in water takes a really long time to penetrate the wood to any depth. A 3/4 inch piece of wood soaked for days would likely not penetrate much at all, I would think, and bending it would be unlikely.