Spanish Cedar

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Has anyone had experience of bent lamination of Spanish Cedar?
If so, how does it behave? I'd like to make chair components using ? ?" slats glued to ⅞" thickness.
Thanks ....
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On Tue, 31 May 2016 08:13:10 -0700 (PDT)

no experience with spanish cedar what are the traits
but what cedar i have used it seems very inflexible when completely dry
i think the most recent cedar was some dry western red cedar
have never tried bent laminations and i know steam allows amazing bends but have to have a steam setup of course
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On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:52:04 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:

My understanding/recollection is that Spanish Cedar is actually a member of the Mahogany family, not cedar...
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On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 1:40:15 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

of the Mahogany family, not cedar...
btw, when I created a red cedar lamination, I soaked the 1/8" strips overni ght, then gradually formed them to their new shape without using any binder . I released the pieces from the form and after allowing them to dry, then glued them up (using thickened epoxy) and clamped them in position. Overall lamination was 10 layers with virtually no rebound effect after release.
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On 5/31/2016 1:48 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

position. Overall lamination was 10 layers with virtually no rebound effect after release.
I wonder if soaking in water helps any? My thought is wood bending requires heat, not water. Steam is used because it gets the wood hot w/o burning it. You can bend wood successfully with just a heat pipe, although burning is a risk. Also, my thoughts are wood is fairly water proof, and soaking, even thin strips, wouldn't penetrate much over night. Soaking in boiling water would do wonders because it heats the wood, elasticizing the "glue" that binds the wood fibers.
My experience with bending 1/8" strips is they generally bend easily, as long as the bend is not severe, and the wood is fairly straight grained and clear of knots. Severe bends I'd go for steam. Really severe and I'd go with air dried, and steam.
Also, cherry looks a lot like mahogany I think, and it bends well.
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On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:04:11 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:

Get a round tooth pick and break it in its middle, forming a "V", i.e., leaving the halves/legs joined. Pinch the legs together and stick the "break" on your tongue, to wet it, then place it on a flat surface (table/counter top) and watch what happens.
Sonny
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On 6/2/2016 9:05 PM, Sonny wrote:

I don't have a tooth pick, but I'm listening... I assume the wood would swell some and bend a bit towards it's original position?
If you have a tooth pick, try soaking it in water overnight, then see if it bends more before breaking. I'm not saying it will or won't, I'm just curious. I do know to make wood really flexible, heat will do it, water or not. Heat pipes are used for this sans water.
Very thin pieces of wood will bend on there own, to very tight radius. For example, shavings from a plane curl up nicely. Thick stuff requires heat, possibly because water alone will not seep in enough to soften the stuff that glues the wood fibers together. I think this is particularly true with kiln dried wood where the glue is really stiff, less so with air dried or green wood.
Soaking a thin strip of cedar in water overnight probably would help, particularly if the cedar were not kiln dried. Soaking wood in water takes a really long time to penetrate the wood to any depth. A 3/4 inch piece of wood soaked for days would likely not penetrate much at all, I would think, and bending it would be unlikely.
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On 6/3/2016 11:36 AM, Jack wrote:

Basically, the wood in _tension_ on the bent toothpick broke; the wood in _compression_ expanded after is elasticity was increased by moisture content added by the tongue ... resulting in the toothpick's "leg's moving apart.
Thereby illustrating that the moisture content (water) of the wood plays a part in the bending of wood, not just heat.
When any board is bent, the wood on the outside (convex) side is put in tension; the wood on the inside (concave side) is out in compression.
It's all about increasing the elasticity of the wood fibers on the compressed side of any desired bend, which both a higher moisture content and heat will provide.
Introducing both heat, and a higher moisture content (most effectively done by the application of steam) increases the elasticity of the wood fibers, and, most importantly for bending, those that will be in compression (concave side), by roughly ten times, allowing a much greater radius of bend than with a board with normal moisture content.
That, unfortunately, doesn't apply to the side in tension ... thus ultimately limiting the radius of a bend before breaking ... just like the toothpick.
IOW, anyone wanting to bend solid wood of any usable thickness, and having it maintain the desired bend, will use both moisture and heat.
That said, this really doesn't apply to the OP, as his was about "bent lamination", a totally different method of bending wood.
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On 6/3/2016 12:36 PM, Jack wrote:

Was at a bar last night, got a hamburger and it had a long round tooth pick stuck in it. I broke it in the middle and placed it in a wet spot on the bar. Nothing happened at all. Placed it in a wet napkin, and still, nothing happened... Next time I'll take it home and soak it overnight and see if it will bend more before breaking.
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On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 12:04:11 PM UTC-4, Jack wrote:

I needed to create a near 180 degree bend. All I can tell you is that it worked for me...
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On 6/3/2016 8:31 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

That's a good bend. Was the wood green, air-dried or kiln dried? I'd think if you could get a 180 degree bend without heat, then red cedar bends well, and the OP can forge ahead.
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On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:45:50 PM UTC-4, Jack wrote:

as

d

t worked for me...

No idea, just a piece of 2 x 6 cedar from the big box store lying around in my garage...I was trying to build a homemade cartop sculling boat carrier out of wood instead of the usual aluminum or SST bent plate. Radius is roug hly 7"-->8", so pretty tight. I tried forming dry, and heard cracking so I decided to try wet, thinking 1/8" thick strips loaded into a 4" diameter PV C pipe capped on both ends (full of water) was worth trying...
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On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 1:48:25 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

, as

ned

d

it worked for me...



in my garage...I was trying to build a homemade cartop sculling boat carrie r out of wood instead of the usual aluminum or SST bent plate. Radius is ro ughly 7"-->8", so pretty tight. I tried forming dry, and heard cracking so I decided to try wet, thinking 1/8" thick strips loaded into a 4" diameter PVC pipe capped on both ends (full of water) was worth trying...
looking to create something like this:
http://www.revolutionrowing.com/rowing-equipment/racing-single-scull-car-ra ck.html
from cedar for carting my 1946 wood racing single to and from the lake...ju st seems like the right thing to do...
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On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 11:45:50 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:

We don't know how long his boards/slats are.
The 180 degree value is not all you need to consider, no matter if steamed, heated only or watered only. What is the radius of the bend? A 180 deg ree curve in a 10' board/slat is "different" (Karl's tension notes), than a 180 degree curve in a 10" board/slat.
Agreed. He probably is ok with bending his slats with no assistance.
Sonny
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of the Mahogany family, not cedar...
Maybe some background is in order -
The original plan was to make six garden chairs from Honduras Mahogany. We made the first two from Mahogany, and that was insanely expensive, so I loo ked for an alternative lumber. I found a wood called "red Grandis" a planta tion grown Australian Eucalyptus (which is grown in Uruguay). That has work ed reasonably well, but the local source has closed down.
I need wood for two more chairs, and I don't want to again the more expensi ve Honduras Mahogany. I haven't been able to find another source for the Re d Grandis.
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On Tue, 31 May 2016 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT)

that honduran mahogany is really nice looking
surprised to know there is a eucalyptus that looks comparable
so you have six chairs and three different woods seems like the last wood choice just needs to be close to one of the other two
maybe it is time to repurpose some old furniture from the second hand store or thrift store or garage sale or craigslist
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....t

When I look at them side-by-side, the Red Grandis has a redder cast and the Mahogany looks a bit more yellow. By the way, I think "Red Grandis" may be the commercial trade name the wood is marketed as.

Normally, yes, but the chairs aren't all going to the same recipient. Two for me, two for a friend, and two for a friend's brother-in-law. They won't be seen together.
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On Tue, 31 May 2016 17:38:19 -0700 (PDT)

i thought it might be
i have some blue gum but did not know there was a rose gum

then that is a different situation now you just need to find some wood suitable for the chair style
i see a lot of nice wood on craigslist and i know a lot never goes up for sale
most pro tree trimmers have guys that take certain species and make furniture or cabinetry
depends what is local on what you can find
but the big question is who gets the honduran mahogany chairs
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

African mahogany; specifically, Khaya ivorensis. Particuarly attractice when quarter sawn (ribbon stripe). One source... http://www.walllumber.com/premier.asp
Spanish cedar is a relative of mahogany but much softer. I've never bent it but I wouldn't expect any problem were I so inclined.
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On Tue, 31 May 2016 10:50:32 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

A friend made an Adirondack chair from Spanish cedar and it was gorgeous. I've used it for the sound board on a hammered dulcimer and it was beautiful there as well - finish was nothing but dewaxed shellac.
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