Solid wood biscuits??

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Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to long grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint apart, took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some left in each piece. So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't seem to have anything. Thanks, by the way, there is much info to be gathered here. Thanks for that too.
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wrote:

My questions are: a) What kind of biscuits are you using, anyway? AFAIK, they're *all* solid wood. b) Presumably, this was done as a test, a prototype for a project. Is there some reason you couldn't use a mortise and tenon, or at least #20 biscuits?
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

Biscuits are usually compressed birch or beech, IIRC. Biscuits are primarily alignment devices, adding only a tiny bit to strength in a joint. You're right: M&T would have been better, and far stronger, but larger biscuits, and even two biscuits, one atop the other (with at least 1/4" between slots, would have been better.
Too, there's the question of glue. What kind, what kind of clamping and for how long?
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Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
Doug Miller wrote:

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Actually mine are solid wood. You can see streaks in the grain run all the way across the biscuit. Breaking it exposes a straight line break along the grain. Looking closely however reveals that the biscuits are stamped out so that the end grain of the wood is rough for better glue absorption
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What brand are you using? dave
Leon wrote:

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Yeah, really. I want to know too, so I don't buy them.

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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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David wrote:

See the second paragraph in the article at:
http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid $3
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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Were the biscuits dry prior to gluing? They have to absorb some of the glue and expand in the slot. If the biscuits were kept in a high humidity area, their ability to absorb glue may have been reduced.
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No biscuit I've ever seen. You might want to look again.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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I looked again. I see what you mean. I must have misunderstood a description that I read online today. My PC biscuits are compressed (of course), but appear to be from a single piece of wood. I'll sleep well tonight knowing the truth of the matter. :)
Dave
Doug Miller wrote:

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that they have infomercials for?
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
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Well, if you call a single bicuit-sized piece of solid wood a BIT...
But they ARE made from a single piece of wood, they are NOT made like particle board or OSB if that is what you are asserting. And usually from beech.
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Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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see my later post
Dave
Lawrence Wasserman wrote:

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Biscuits are Porter Cable brand. Glue is Titebond II. Clamped 3hrs, left 24 hrs. Biscuits are not solid wood, but some kind (?) of chipped wood pressed together. The breaks were not along any grain. No grain visible.
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wrote:

P-C biscuits are solid wood, with the grain running diagonally across the biscuit. They're stamped and compressed, not machined, but they *are* solid wood.

Look again. You missed it the first time.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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PC brand biscuits are of lower quality than is acceptable for a commercial shop. You want Lamello.
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Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
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I have never seen a biscuit that is not solid wood. If you had pieces left in each half it most likely broke along the grain. If any pulled out of the slot revealing the original slot surface you may not have had enough glue in the slot.
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Leon wrote:

Lamello has come out with a new biscuit called "Fibro". It's supposed to give high omni-directional strength and it is not humidity sensitive. See:
http://www.lamello.com/english/fibro_e.pdf
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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My Take on biscuits ( and I have used them quite a bit over 10 years or so - as a hobbyist) is that they provide a lot of lateral "hold" but not necessarily a lot of vertical load support left to their own "devices" so to speak. I'm not sure about "alignment" because there is quite a bit of "play" with biscuits IMHO.
I have not had joints separate when I used biscuits.
I use them for face frames and such (much like pocket screws) which I would like to start using but hate to start yet another "software" item in the shop.
Usually, I cut the FF, then cut the slots. After aligning everything on a cabinet front, I glue up the biscuit then shoot a brad into the cabinet which holds until the glue dries.
"Until the glue dries" gets you through a lot of time just waiting for inspiration or whatever.
I have let glue dry for days at a time. Most projects are better for that.
I know...get the Kreg 2,000,000 etc.
Ok, Ok...
Lou

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