Solid Counter top for the DIY

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I want to put in a Corian type countertop in my kitchen. However, I discovered that the ones I found locally (Corain etc ) aren't available for the DIY.
Any products available for the DIY?
Willi
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wrote:

Solid surface producers liscence their installers, in their opinion to control quality and limit warranty, in my opinion to hold prices up. I would prefer a method to buy sheet stock that would be without warranty if not liscenced.
That said:
http://www.solid-surface-kits.com /
I have not used them, only considered it.
Frank
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Frank Boettcher wrote:

Price fixing is the last thing we're concerned about. Making a worth-while profit is everybody's right. If we can't make a decent buck, we won't promote the product. Distributors know that. It is, however, a small reason to support us. The expertise is what
Got to love this part: Corian-TYPE of countertop. Their Dovae product isn't too shabby, but their house-brand is likely polyester (as in Bondo autobody filler?) and I know that Formica is polyester. Nowhere does one see the reputable products. Here's another 'treat': glue & gun ($65. ea.) pallet & cradle charge ($125) shipping ($175 - $300) depending on destination. (Is it just me, or am I looking at $ 500.00 here.)
I wonder how they would deal with a cooktop cut-out. I also wonder who you'd call if the top broke after installation. (A pretty serious probability with polyester tops.)
FWIW
r
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I've watched the process and especially in my case a simple straight run of about ten feet, it's not really that difficult. DEFINITELY not as difficult as making the cabinets. There is always the chance that you'll do things incorrectly but that is always the case with a DIY. It's not like the mistake will be lethal!!!!
Since you make your living doing it I understand that you like things as they are.
Willi
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Frank Boettcher wrote:

Thanks Frank
I Googled them but I also heard about a person would was unable to even get samples from them. I'd be interested but I'd like to find someone who has used them.
Willi
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Willi wrote:

It simply doesn't lend itself to DIY-ers. The distributors will only sell to certified fabricators. There are some polyester based fly-by-nights who'll take anybody's money, but the reputable 100% acrylic products such as Wilsonart Gibraltar, Corian, Staron and Meganite insist on being able to extend their 10-year warranties. That includes expert fabrication AND installation.
Adhesive chemistry and dust control are just some of the issues which are simply not in the realm of an amateur.
Besides, those of us who have dedicated a lot of time and money to become experts won't take well to some distributor 'back-dooring' product to the end user. We would turf that product out on its ass in a heartbeat. The distributors know that and therefore would rather deal with us. A position I wholeheartedly support.
r www.topworks.ca
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:31:07 -0800, Robatoy wrote:

And how much do you make a year installing solid surface?
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J. Clarke wrote:

but then I would have to shoot you. It is THAT much of a secret. <G>
r
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:05:45 -0800, Robatoy wrote:

So you _do_ have a profit motive for maintaining the status quo. You do realize that that makes everything you say suspect.
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J. Clarke wrote:

Why does that make everything I say suspect? I have every right to protect the business I have built up. And as long as I have the commercial clout to make the distributors see things my way, I will use it. If you begrudge me that, what does that make you?
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And as long as I have the

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I was thinking more along the lines of un-American. Free enterprise and all that.
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:18:11 -0800, Robatoy wrote:
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If you believed in free enterprise then you wouldn't want to have a protected market.
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[snip].

That is *if* you assume that the protection is because of profits and price. It is not. The manufacturers' warranties include fabrication and installation. If something goes wrong during 10 years (and often beyond), it is covered. In many cases when the home-owner screws up (a red-hot cast iron frying pan, for instance) the warranty is still covered as a matter of courtesy. I have repaired, at no cost to the home-owner, screw ups made by OTHER bad fabricators who allowed unqualified workers do stupid things, like cutting out cook-tops with a jigsaw. The manufacturer and I, collectively, sign up for a decade with the customer.
The manufacturers do not want their product name tarnished by bad performance out in the field regardless of the cause.
I call it fair to get a decent buck for a job well done. I do not want to compete with people who lack the skill and commitment to uphold the integrity of the product.
I am taking care of my customers in my neighbourhood and it is important to me that my business stays healthy and up-to-date; that costs money too.
The prices are established by using very basic formulas: cost of materials, overhead, wages and a profit. If I push the profit margins too high, people won't buy my countertops. I have to stay competitive with granite and e-Stone (Quartz)
If, for whatever reason, I can't make a profit, I bail. The manufacturers make sure that guys like me don't lose interest. This is not complicated.
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:21:59 -0800, Robatoy wrote:

That's your story. My story is that it's because of profits and price. If it was because of warranty issues then the manufacturers could easily sell the product without warranty.

So you say.

That's all well and good, but nobody is asking for "a job well done", they're asking for the materials to do the job themselves.

Yeah, gotta keep up with those cutting-edge developments. Right. Sure.

Well that's nice but I don't want your work, I want the material.

Only because you benefit from it to my detriment.
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J. Clarke wrote:

You may not want to accept it, but manufacturers and distributors are perfectly within their rights to choose their desired method of going to market. Sure, sure, they are protecting their profits to a degree, but they are also steering clear of high risk customers. If the product requires special skills to use/install they avoid a great deal of trouble (read COST) by restricting sales to a network of professionals.
The typical wrecker is way above average as a do-it-yourselfer and you have to remember that most people are not like most of us. These manufacturers are considering the mainstream do-it-yourselfer, whose skills and experience are way below yours, and worse, way below what he thinks they are.
So here's the scenario: Jimbo talks Robatoy into selling him a countertop uninstalled, no warranty. Jimbo gets his countertop home (probably asked Rob to deliver it because he doesn't have truck) and starts the install. He exercises Rob's telephone and patience for three days with questions, requests to borrow tools and finally to come over and help on Sunday afternoon during the game. Finally, because his homemade cabinets aren't level the countertop breaks. Jimbo calls Rob and says "the countertop was defective, it broke". Rob says, "That's unheard of, they don't break for no reason, and besides, you pestered me for weeks until I agreed to sell the thing to you with NO WARRANTY". Jimbo says " You're a liar and a cheat, and I'm going to tell everyone I know that you're a dishonest businessman". Jimbo then proceeds to use the power of the internet to unjustly slander Rob's business and the manufacturer as well. That kind of press could put a small business under.
This happens all the time in every industry. As a do-it-yourselfer, I try very hard to learn and use the methods and tools a qualified pro would use, and I suspect you are the same way. But for every one of us, there are ten Jimbo's out there.
I'll bet the pros on this board could relate a hundred or more stories very similar to this one.
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tom snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote:

Well put, Tom. Excellent.
Thanks for that.
Rob
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You seem to be missing the point. My request, and others have voiced the same, is for there to be a source for solid surface material for those who feel competent to use same without any liability to the seller or to you at all. Get it. No, I repeat, no liability to the manufacturer or to any local installers. None.
Now if I screw it up, how is that going to affect the reputation of the material? If anything it would improve the status of the pro as a source for installed countertops. Others would see that the "amateur" messed up the job in his house, so they better go with a pro. Of course, I don't see that happening, but whatever.
We are not talking about selling to those that are in the business and too cheap to go through the liscencing process. We are talking about people who want to use the stuff in their own homes. So discount to the liscenced pro and sell at a higher price to the amateur. That's what everybody else does.
I can walk into the electrical supply house, buy a hundred amp subpanel, install a feeder breaker in my main, wire to and install the subpanel, wire as many circuits from it as the code allows, and the only requirement is that I do it to all to code. How I learn the code is my business, I don't have to pay Square D a fee for that. A lot more riding on my doing that right than installing a countertop.
My original contention is the same, they do it to keep the prices up. Just like Sony refused to allow Beta, a superior format, to be used by other VCR manufacturers. And when VHS came along, an inferior format, but available, Beta was history.
Frank
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be out installing countertops all day instead of posting on rec.woodworking. After all, he is protected by his supplier so he should have plenty of business.
Frank

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[snip] " I

WTF??? Now I can't have a coffee and spend a few moments on line rattling your cage?...or Clarke's?
You are running out of ideas here, bro'. And yes, I am very busy. And no, I won't sell you any material.
It is 7;30 PM.. I just finished my supper, and I am off to the shop again to get some things ready for tomorrow. I'll check back with you in 2 1/2 hours when I have my milk and cookies.
btw.. I have to build the countertops before I can install them. I'll be installing 2 of them Thursday and Firday. IF that's okay with you Frank.
LOL
r
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