On 3/4/2016 12:11 PM, email@example.com wrote:
My experience with products like UltraStock, Medite and Medex, all MDF
products, has been different.
Leon will attest to the fact that I left a piece of 3/4 UltraStock mdf
in a clients birdbath fountain for a week, and it came out looking like
it went in ... pristine.
Also left a 4x4 cutoff of UltraStock out in the weather, leaning against
my fence for well over a year. Used it later for jigs and it was bit
weather stained, but still flat, with no ragged or blown edges, or warp
Also used Medex for 20' run of tall sliding doors in a set of carport
cabinets (open on two sides) quite a few years back. Still looking new
and standing the test of time thus far.
Basically, wouldn't hesitate to use those type products in an average
garage environment in this locale.
I built a lazy Susan with that same water resistant MDF scraps that we
used on that kitchen job. The lazy Susan sat on the grass in the back
yard with my water hose reel mounted on top.
It was rained on regularity and sat on the damp grass every morning. I
eventually disassembled it because the set up did not work like I wanted
but the MDF was still pretty decent looking. I did not throw away the MDF.
On 3/4/2016 12:11 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Thank you Robert!
A couple of things, the customer is going to paint the cabinets.
BUT my last couple of purchases of domestic, paint quality birch plywood
ended up with the outer veneer lifting with the water based primer. I
was not happy but worked around that.
I think I will look into the MDO instead for the large cabinet panels
And I think the tall door may become two shorter doors.
MDO works well, as long as you're prepared to do edge banding, only very
light easing/no round overs (without a lot of sizing/prepping edges for
Check availability carefully..
Last time I used MDO, Clark's was about the only place that carried it
Hardwood Products didn't carry it then, maybe they do now? It's not on
my price sheet.
Home Depot carried it at one time, but only 3/8". That might have changed.
Dixie lumber used to carry it also, but haven't seen much around lately.
I managed to order the last 3/4 MDO I used through Detering, much
cheaper than Clark's.
And, let me know what you find out with regard to price availability. :)
Have you guys seem this stuff?
I saw it used a could weeks ago and it freaked me out.
Advantages on veneer plywood plus the smooth paint-ability of hard mdf?
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 8:07:03 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
It has been around for years. Sign makers use it, it winds up in boats and
marine applications, etc. I first saw it when it was being used by a sign
company and they gave me some cutoffs. One groups of cut offs had smooth
wood on both sides over resin soaked/heat/pressure/treated plies of veneer,
and was made to be painted or stained. Some of the other pieces had a har
d, colored acrylic board bonded to it. The sign guys told me that they cou
ld also get that same wood or plastic exterior ply with an aluminum core!
Look for it under its old name of "hdo" or high density overlay. I is also
called "sign board" or some such by some.
BTW... it is nasty expensive in some of its forms, so not really too practi
cal except for its own specialty use.
I have decided to use MDO instead of the paint grade birch plywood for
the panels of the cabinet and the shelves. It was probably a fluke that
the veneer on my last PG plywood lifted after priming with water base,
but I don't want to take a chance on that happening again.
Right after reading Roberts comment about using it I called Hardwood
Products. They have it in 3/4" only at $64.95 per sheet. I need 4
sheets and I'll gladly eat the difference in profit. The domestic PG
And now that we are talking different plywood, MDF, and MDO this
reminded me of some oak veneered stain grade plywood I bought many many
years ago from HW Products. I have never seen it since.
First outer ply veneers were oak, naturally, immediately under, on each
side, was a layer of MDF, and then the 3 center plys of what ever wood
is normally used. That stuff was crazy flat and no voids under the
outer veneer. And it cut just a little bit easier on my old 1hp
On 3/5/2016 8:20 AM, Leon wrote:
> It was probably a fluke that the veneer on my last PG plywood lifted
> after priming with water base, but I don't want to take a chance on
> that happening again.
I think you got bit by the push to reduce formaldehyde in glues these days.
Last time I looked they still have it. IIRC, it's called "combined-core"
or "combination core".
Spece'ed a LEED kitchen project with it once and it was nixed due to the
formaldehyde content at the time ... ruined their little warm fuzzies.
Menards, evidently all over the northern states carries it.
HD says to talk to the lumber dept exec in your area.
I have been looking for MDO since finding out it was best for painted
cabinets as it had a flat surface, where even the best plywood's when
painted showed all the variances under the skin. :(
I am going to check around here. Roseberg, Oregon is just past the
state line a bit, and I think we should get first dibs. LOL.
MDF unless you get the stuff made for bath rooms is like regular
particle board as to usability.
As you can tell, I am on the hunt too. The stuff from Italy for
painted cabinets, or for veneering looks promising.
As Captain Obvious sez: "Not all MDF is created equal." ;)
Not directed towards you, but there is a general lack of experience with
the various grades and "usability" of the product, particularly when
reading internet posts.
Even the cheaper grades of MDF are more dimensionally stable over time
in the same environment than most general use and cabinet grade
plywoods, and have some more desirable properties:
It machines well, lends itself well to surface and edge profile/contour
routing, finishes better (with no telegraphing of subsurface defects as
I've had with cheaper grades of MDO with thinner veneer), repairs easier
(Bondo is magic), is more sustainable, and when properly finished, can
be more cost effective for an equally beautiful fit and finish in
certain interiors tasks, like interior doors of all kinds, even in
uninsulated interior environments, like a garage.
(Folks don't often realize just how many high dollar, paint grade,
paneled interior doors have been made of MDF for quite a few years).
Not to mention its use in jigs and fixtures, where dimensional stability
The thread started out about "garage cabinets".
I've built/caused to be built many garage cabinets, some using MDF doors
when the design and budget precluded more expensive alternatives,
including for my own shop.
I can say unequivocally that I have had fewer problems with even the
cheaper grade MDF doors warping/bowing than with many all wood doors in
the same environment.
Granted, in most cases for MDF interior doors in both kitchens, baths
and garages, I've spec'ed the best grades/types of MDF, even it it had
to be ordered at extra cost.
However, being a cheap bastard when it comes to eating my own dog food,
these cheap, Home Depot purchased MDF, cabinet doors, as seen below,
have been in my non-insulated shop (an old garage/utility room, with
garage door most often opened in use) for over five years now.
These slab MDF doors, of the cheapest grade MDF available at the BORG,
have been subjected to the notorious swings of Gulf Coast temperature
and humidity, and, as this photo taken a few minutes ago shows, and
despite non temperature/humidity controlled environment, show no signs
of warping, bowing ... or any movement whatsoever:
I have many more examples showing the stability of this material when
used and finished properly in Gulf Coast garage environments.
Basically I would sat to not sell the product short for interior door
applications in that type of environment.
As always, YMMV ... even though most often the proof is indeed in the
They look fine to me. I made some for my shop with melamine which I
found out was really made of particle board, not mdf as they said it
was. The found out I needed vinyl glue by tightbond. to secure some
joints. I was not impressed as a couple of the panels came apart
easily. Were those painted?
I just recently bought another book on cabinet work. In it they went
through the pro's and con's regarding case work, and mentioned MDO was
the ticket for painting due to its flat nature, were as even good
Baltic Birch would show the imperfections or voids when painted where
as if it was stained of coated with varnish, etc. it wouldn't be so
They also mentioned that the MDO have better screw biting, holding
than MDF, and so on. Along with that the cabinet and or door would
weigh a lot less.
So that is what I was going by. I also checked with HD and while they
didn't have it in stock they did have one sided 4 x 8's in various
thickness' from 3/8's up. with a 3 day delivery. No cost firmed, but
the said to come back on weekdays. I am also going to check the local
hardwood shops to see what they say, and I needed to gather up info
there for the FF.
I am about ready to make a cut sheet but have been toying with some
ideas on slides, using the information from Leon and yourself for
installation. I am hoping to have some designs done on that, this
It can be but when you cut it down to smaller sizes it is not all that
BUT you certainly want to use "QUALITY" hinges. Most Euro style hinges
work best as they do not rely on screws to hold the weight of the panel
rather the panel fits on to the hinge and two screws simply keep the
panel from coming off of the hinge.
That's one aspect of the brilliance of that cup design on euro hinges.
The same design attribute that allows for hiding the working guts of the
hinge also provide most of its mounting strength.
You can sort of think of it as a very large round tenon.
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
Not only that, but most manufacturer's of cup type hinges provide an
option of two methods of mounting:
Wood screws only; or plastic dowel and dowel screws.
Thus addressing the issue of some door materials holding screws better
than others in some applications.
Something that manufacturer's, like Blum, even advertise as optional
accessories ... #2 from their blurb on accessory uses:
"Plastic Dowels, used on manufactured wood products where wood screws do
not hold well"
Often needing to replace existing hinges for ones that will give me the
necessary clearance for pullouts and drawers, I keep a package handy
(get them locally at Rockler) in my "cabinet" tool box.
... you can also tap one in, then use a regular hinge wood screw in a
On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 12:34:37 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
You might be able to toss me in that bag, too. I have used a fair amount o
f MDF and HDF, and all kinds of other products, but only on a limited basis
. While San Antonio is a large city geographically, we can be surprisingly
behind the times.
I see all kinds of products at the home shows (we haven't had a woodworking
show in probably 20 years) that look great, but aren't available here. On
e year I saw a new kind of OSB that was very smooth, an inch thick, and hel
d up the front end of a Ford F150 driven partly onto a sheet laid on a spec
ially made sawhorse for the nationwide demo.
We never had it here. Never available.
One of my cabinet contacts buys a super high grade HDF, but has to buy it b
y the lift. He uses it with a mill to make custom cabinet doors (remember
Sekeris making his sheafs of wheat on all black doors?) with a Legacy type
mill. He can't get it locally.
I got a half sheet of salvage from a lumberyard that was cleaning out its r
acks, and no one knew what it was. It wasn't water resistant, but it was d
andy for a work table I made for a client. It completely stable, and wore
like iron on a small work table I made for him. I have the other piece und
er a piece of Formica on my home made router table.
I personally have never seen, and frankly never heard of any kind of MDF yo
u could leave outside with no concern. I don't even bother to look for tha
t kind of thing here as I have wasted waaaay to much time looking for somet
hing like that. It's a shame we don't have some of the more advanced produ
cts here, but that's the way it goes. I am just happy I can get the super
hard MDF architectural baseboards here that are so popular these days.
It's called "Extira". I suspect that there's a pile of it at the
Dixieply yard, but getting it out of them might be a chore. One of the
local hardwood retailers stocks it and this is hardly lumber heaven.
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