so a dummy buys a ras...

What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.

I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little carriages dangling from floppy arms.

I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the question nobody asked.

Sliding table-saw... now you're talking. ( ..and yes, you CAN mess yourself up with one of those as well, if not careful.)

Then again, I'm a huge fan of Onsrud-style overhead pinrouters, so WTF do I know?

BTW.....just so I can make your day, Doug, you are right often about many things. I just happen to disagree with you on this issue, although I have seen large pendulum-style swinging saws with which I don't have a problem. Go figgur.

Reply to
Robatoy
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That's not the same as the inherent safety (or lack thereof) of the tool.

Neither am I. If my RAS had a wobbly carriage and a floppy arm, I'd either fix it, or replace it with one that was more solid.

"Concept" is a matter of opinion, and I won't argue with you over that. We can agree to disagree there.

"Lack of accuracy" I won't argue with, either. Rumpty may take issue with this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a table saw. And they're more difficult to set accurately, too.

"Inherent danger" is where you jump off the cliff. Operated with the proper care, a RAS is no more dangerous than a TS (and IMO safer for most operations).

Reply to
Doug Miller

I'm not getting in the middle of this.....

Reply to
Rumpty

I've never seen you shy away from a RAS argument before. C'mon...go for it.

Dave

Rumpty wrote:

Reply to
David

Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can do more, but I'm not going to argue.

Reply to
Rumpty

ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play. :)

Doug?

Dave

Rumpty wrote:

Reply to
David

Hey, if youse guys want to keep walking around with your head up in the clouds thinking the RAS is a worthless POC, be my guest! I make good $ with mine, and if you walk into my shop don't go looking for the TS because there ain't none.

Reply to
Rumpty

LOL! Point taken.

Dave

Rumpty wrote:

Reply to
David

No disagreement here on most of it... but I'd like to see an explanation of the "more accurate" comment. I don't think so... but it could be that Rumpty can teach me a few things about setting up a RAS.

Reply to
Doug Miller

A simple crosscut with the RAS on say a 6' board, pull the tape, mark your point with your razor knife, slide it up to the fence's cut line and make your cut. That mark made with your razor knife is split down the middle, dead on accurate! All made within 10 seconds or so. Do the same with your TS or CSMS.........

Reply to
Rumpty

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in news:P8rre.9443$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.southeast.rr.com:

Since an RAS is in the list of possible first fixed saws I've been thinking about, could you please elaborate on this? Thanks.

Kurt

Reply to
Kurt

Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I think they suck.

An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data.

Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double amputation?

Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool?

It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but surely by design.

Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and outfeed table?

In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using a radial arm saw.

In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it?

Not so far.

I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you, in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS.

Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly.

If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back in my shop.

I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut, for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went back to the TS.

A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy.

Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)

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Reply to
Tom Watson

LOL!! I can't WAIT to see Rumpty's response. The gloves are off! You go, Tom.

Dave

Tom Wats> >

Reply to
David

"Tom Watson" wrote in message = news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... | On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) | wrote: |=20 | >I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those = who have=20 | >never owned and rarely used one. |=20 | Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I | think they suck. | >

| >Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws. |=20 | An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data. |=20 | > When operating the RAS, one=20 | >hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore = impossible to=20 | >amputate that hand or any of its digits |=20 | Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double | amputation? |=20 | >- and to keep the other hand safe, all=20 | >you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the = blade, and=20 | >keep it there. |=20 | Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool? | >

| >Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown =

*away*=20 | >from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS. |=20 | It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade | that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but | surely by design. | >

| >Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with = doing the=20 | >same on a radial arm saw. |=20 | Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and | outfeed table? | >

| >Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade = exposed during=20 | >rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done = something=20 | >stupid like removing the guard). |=20 | In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and | towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using | a radial arm saw. |=20 | In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the | table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it? |=20 | >

| >I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime = Directive by=20 | >attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion |=20 | Not so far. |=20 | >, but, please, let's=20 | >at least attempt to be a little bit objective here. |=20 |=20 | I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you, | in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these | widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the | instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the | lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And | that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not | want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS. |=20 | Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking | world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they | don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly. |=20 | If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back | in my shop. |=20 | I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut, | for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove | true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went | back to the TS. |=20 |=20 | A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a | contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and | prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy. |=20 |=20 |=20 |=20 |=20 |=20 | Tom Watson - WoodDorker | tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) |

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Being as objective as one can, I must honestly declare that I have both = in my shop. I started with a RAS and added a "cabinet" saw shortly = after I discovered the thrill(?) of a RAS RIP. I later added a slider.

Anyone in the London ON area like a really good, hardly used RAS?

--=20 PDQ

Reply to
PDQ

Obviously not, and I can't even begin to imagine what you might have thought you read that suggested that.

Not quite. On other tools - tablesaws and shapers, for example - the cutter is stationary, and one's hands move past it. The risk of moving the hand into the cutter is obviously higher than on a tool such as the RAS, in which the cutter moves in a straight line on a fixed and unchangeable path. All you gotta do to avoid a hand injury is to put your hand somewhere that's not in that path, and keep it put.

Nonsense. The blade on an RAS is no more to be feared than that on a TS. The blade is contained in a steel guard attached to the motor housing, which rides on rails. Yes, it can move, but where it's gonna move isn't exactly a mystery.

I am. I'm also well acquainted with the joy and safety of crosscutting long and heavy boards without having to deal with their large moment of inertia.

Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of the blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.

I don't think that for a moment. But as I've pointed out, that's not what happens on a RAS.

Careful thinking about the geometry would also lead to correct conclusions about the direction of the force exerted on the work by the blade.

It's quite clear that your position is, like Robatoy's, the result of prejudice, and not of logic.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Strike One.

Strike Two.

Foul Ball.

Another foul. This one tingled the hands a bit.

That one rode the corner. I'll call it a ball, just to keep the AB going.

OK. Ball Two.

Strike Three. And that wasn't even a good junk pitch.

Don't argue with the ump.

Sigh. Off to the showers with ya.

Don't despair, it's hard to come back from an 0-2 count.

"Have faith my son, remember the great Dimaggio."

(E.H., TOMATS)

Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)

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Reply to
Tom Watson

Reply to
George

So you don't like them. Fine. That does not prove they're unsafe.

Neither can you produce data showing otherwise.

Perhaps you'd care to explain how you managed to misunderstand what you thought I wrote.

Apparently you disagree. Perhaps you'd be specific about the reasons.

IOW you know I'm right but you don't want to admit it.

I think that means "yes, you're right about that one."

There isn't any disputing the *fact* that the teeth on the leading edge of an RAS and a TS move the same direction: down.

The ump blew the call.

Your persistent evasion demonstrates ever more clearly that your position is the result of prejudice and not of logic.

Reply to
Doug Miller

What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?

Reply to
Doug Miller

The best RAS you can buy is a "used" DeWalt here in the US or a new RAS from "Original Saw Company" There are no other RAS's worth buying IMHO.

Join us to find out why: Radial Arm Saw Forum:

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Reply to
Rumpty

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