Sliding T-bevel, marking guage

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1. A sliding T-bevel seems like it would be a useful markup tool. Any special reason they put a potentially blood-letting 45 degree point on the tail end of the blade (to help make it a combination square?)?
2. I bought a (wheel) marking guage recently, but now it seems to me that a "mortise and marking guage" would be generally more useful. Can you think of any reason I might want to keep the first rather than just "upgrade" to the second? Is the wheel marking guage more helpful in marking the part of the mortise or tenon that goes contrary to the grain than the other marking guage would be?
Bill
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On 01/24/2010 07:58 PM, Bill wrote:

Good question....I've got no clue. Shinwa makes some reasonably priced ones:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code -STB73030.XX&Category_Code=TMB
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p2594&cat=1,42936,50298,43508

The mortise gauge (with two blades) is actually often more useful when marking the tenon than the mortise. If making the mortise the same thickness as your tooling, you really only need to mark one side.
Depending on the wheel gauge, you may be able to purchase additional heads for marking mortises. This is the case for the Vertias and the Tite-Mark, for instance.
It's worth having a mortise gauge, but if I were you I wouldn't get rid of the other one--it's often useful to have multiple gauges set to different measurements in case you need to go back and mark something that you forgot about the first time.
Chris
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Chris Friesen wrote:

To me, a beginner, it seems that marking the tenon from alternate sides of the end of a beam using a single-bladed guage would yield better results than try to center a double-bladed guage by hand.
I think those that use the double-bladed mortise guage adjust the guage off of the cut tenon, and it seems that this would give a little more control than marking directly from the tenon itself. Because, for instance, you might cut the mortise just a wee-bit smaller for a snug fit.
Please correct me (anyone) where appropriate!
Best, Bill
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Bill wrote:

(ONTO the end of the beam)
using a single-bladed guage would yield better

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CW wrote:

Not the error in the measurement of the shoulder width, and this way the tenon would be more likely to be centered. At least, that's the way I thought about it. How do you prefer to think about it--by calculating the tenon width in advance and then trying to mark the lines about the center by eye, or do you use a measuring rule?
Best, Bill
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That would give you uniform shoulders but, if the tennon doesn't fit, what difference are uniform shoulders going to do you? Marking from both sides of the stock will work if your wood is exactly the same size (unlikely if dressed by hand) and you hold your gage just perfect. You will have far better results with this (and everything you make), if you pick a side and work from there.
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Thank you for a good lesson!
Bill
CW wrote:

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CW wrote:

Pretty decent justification for a planer IMHO.
Lew
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On 01/25/2010 06:24 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Until you get that gorgeous piece of wood that's just wider than your planer...and you want to keep it full width.
It never hurts to know how to do things by hand, even if you rarely need to use the knowledge.
Chris
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"Chris Friesen" wrote:

I don't trust boards that wide not to cup.
Much prefer glue ups of narrower (6" max) boards.
Lew
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Do you alternative their "cup direction"?

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In case anyone else is interested in this discussion, here is a link to a fine YouTube video on cutting a mortise and tenon joint by hand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3jByNHeGxs

Bill
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On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 04:14:49 -0500, the infamous "Bill"
--snip--

Yeah, that's pretty much it, but he got a bit careless in his haste for the video. I wish he'd been more professional about it.
1) He cut down into the shoulders of the tenon piece several times as he quickly hacked off the excess.
2) He didn't pad the mortise piece from the clamp, so it was sure to have a dent where it was clamped down.
3) And did you notice the gapers he left as he fit the tenon into the mortise? At 5:44 into the film, the gap shown is roughly 3/16". The mortise is longer than it should be, reducing the strength of the joint.
--
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scrawled the following:

You have a good eye:

Should he have just been "more careful" to stop on the line?

Not only is it longer, but it looks wider too. Is this an error, or is cutting it a little wide unavoidable? At the beginning of the video he points out that the difference between a good fit and a poor fit can be measured in thousandths of an inch. Did he fail his test?
Bill

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On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:40:19 -0500, the infamous "Bill"

Yes.
Width is 1/3-1/2 the stock thickness. I think you're mistaking depth for length. By length, I mean the long dimension of the rectangular mortise hole. Yes, it's an error if you don't make the hole the same size as the pole. ;)

He sure did. I know it was made for teaching, but a professional (like Frank Klausz in his M&T video) does a bit better, showing only what the student -should- see.
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Larry,
I watched it. One thing that came to mind is it wouldn't be so easy to pound the tenon if he had one on each end of the beam.
I haven't seen anyone use any glue on these joints yet. They do glue them, don't they? Or not always?
Bill
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On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:48:23 -0500, the infamous "Bill"

Oh, his mortising video is on FWW and tenon cutting on YouTube. Cool.
OK, my opinion is that in this video, the tenon was just a bit too tight. My reasoning is twofold: once you get glue on it, the tenon tends to swell a couple thou, and too tight a joint leaves little room for glue and starves the joint. A well made M&T is strong structurally, so it can hold despite some starvation, but not too much. I'd have pared that tenon with a fine cut until it was, as Goldilocks said "Just right!"
Pound on the tenon? You should never have to pound. Tap the joint together, yes. Pound, no. That's too tight. You could damage something taking apart the test assembly.

The video in question was a quick demo. Glue is used in production in conjunction with LOTS AND LOTS OF CLAMPS. (All together now, boys: "You can never have too many clamps.")

Not always. In timberframing, they're pegged and they HAVE to be precise for strength.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

That's exactly what I was thinking when I was watching Frank Klausz pound his joint together in his M&T video! How is he going to separate that joint without the possibility of fracturing something?!
One thing I haven't see anyone do (which they do when they glue a banjo dowel rod) is to leave room for the glue to escape, by leaving a little path along the tenon. Evidently it's not necessary?
Consider the nature of the joint (emphasis on the tenon cheeks and mortise sides) I assume it's not an issue if the mortise is cut a little too deep, correct (better a little too deep, than a little too shallow!)?
Bill
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On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 12:38:00 -0500, the infamous Bill

Most people can't make perfectly mating joints, so there's room for it to squeeze out or move into the mortise which is inevitably deeper than it needs to be.

Right. Then again, there are a few people who use massive gobs of glue and get squeezeout on all sides and squozen into every possible pocket underneath, but they learn quickly, usually. ;)
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