Sketup Question

I've looked down at Penn Station (MSG) from the 86th floor of the Empire State Building.

Reply to
B A R R Y
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Sure!

Yankee games complicate things, as they toss up a 3 mile to 3000 ft. With no game, it's no big deal.

You can also do the trip @ 1100 feet, with full ATC traffic separation, if Newark and LaGuardia aren't flat-out.

Reply to
B A R R Y

Looked better than from the airplane, didn't it? Well... it's time to let this one die. I think we done beat it to death. Or I did anyway. :D

Reply to
MikeWhy

No interest other than how cutting holes in counter tops requires much in a CAD program, if anything. I've cut perfect holes for sinks using just a tape measure and saw?

I can understand needing fancy CAD stuff with a CNC interface if you are doing this, but as has been said over and over, SU is not a fancy CAD program. I would imagine the sink companies have all the stuff available for the $million CNC guys to use or plug into their fancy CNC machines.

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picture looks easy enough to draw up with SU. I wouldn't be surprised that SU drawings are not available now. I know I stumbled over tons of company drawings of all sorts of stuff for use in SU.

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who then plunge their $ 3000.00 worth of diamond bits into multiples

Again, I would think the sink companies have this stuff available to plug into the software used on most CNC equipment? I would guess the standard CAD software is AUTOCAD, and just about everything should work with autocad. I don't see many woodworkers buying autocad though, just to draw up some cabinets or book shelves, or even figuring out how to cut out a sink hole in a counter top.

I doubt the cost of the job means much to SU. Swingmans $300,000.00 house plans in SU for example. Interfacing with your $30,000 cnc machine might be an issue, but for most woodworkers, SU is not only perfect, if anything, it's over kill.

Nothing wrong with that. Still, I've installed a number of sinks, cutting out the sink hole perfectly with nothing more than a tape, pencil and saw... No fancy or non-fancy CAD program needed. As a matter of fact, the only time I had a problem with a sink hole is when a cabinet company measured for the counter top, and the counter top company cut the hole and it was off by an inch. Not sure which guy made the mistake, but probably the one using the expensive CAD program:-(

This is certainly a reason not to use SU I guess. On the other hand I've never used a fancy CNC machine, but my first thought is it comes with software to plug in simple design parameters, and for tricky stuff, like a fancy sink, the sink company would have files for that purpose.

Does your CNC machine have proprietary software or does it interface with standard CAD stuff like AUTOCAD? I would think most large companies that make stuff that use CNC machines would have files that could be easily plugged in so the client wouldn't need to draw up much of anything?

Sure.

Don't know, probably will soon if they don't. I've seen lots of SU stuff from large companies when perusing for SU info.

That's what I thought. Just seemed odd to me that a counter top company would need all that fancy stuff. I do get the CNC stuff, but that is still a little unusual for the typical woodworker. I'm pretty sure you just bought one yourself, so until the recent past, you didn't have to plug numbers into a computer to build a counter top, right?

Reply to
Jack Stein

Yes, FREE is about as good a price as there is...

I think it's just the opposite. I think it gives many people, like woodworkers, the opportunity to learn to use computer software to do stuff that the normally would not do. The bad thing I see is hobbyist woodworkers end up wasting lots of time on the computer instead of the shop.

That makes no sense to me?

There are those who will

Hard to argue with that...

I couldn't figure out why Google gives something this nice away for free? If what you say is true, I find it interesting that I like it for drawing up cabinets and don't even have the slightest clue what I'd use it and Google earth for? I know what I use Google earth for, and SU for, but have a tough time connecting the two? I guess if you were building a house and wanted to orient it with Google earth, but even then, what is in it for Google? Google earth is free, SU is free? I've always gone by the idea that if something seems too good to be true (other than some free GNU stuff), it probably isn't. I'm still wondering about SU, but so far, so good...

Reply to
Jack Stein

Undermounted sink? Quartz countertop? 30 mm thick? The edge of the cut- out matching the beveled edge of a $1000.00 sink? Perfectly?

Tape, pencil, saw.

Right.

Reply to
Robatoy

It does to me. It either limits design solutions to those using only straight lines or circular/elliptical arcs, and doesn't "understand" solids (which it deals with only as closed collections of surfaces).

I'll agree that it may be a great tool for drawing up boxes, but I also recognize that it discourages people from thinking beyond boxes (and/or aggregates of boxes) and circular arcs.

It makes me a bit uncomfortable to say it right out loud, and I assure you that no offense is intended - but if what you're saying is that nothing more is needed, then you've proved the point you say didn't make sense to you. :-/

Reply to
Morris Dovey

Nope!

Quartz countertop? 30 mm thick? The edge of the cut-

Nope! But I thought you sent the Quartz tops out for cutting?

Nope, wrong. If I were doing Quartz, I would send it out same as you. If I were doing granite, I'd let the granite guys do it. Everyday, run of the mill sinks, tape, pencil, saw has always worked fine for me. Don't think I would need Autocad, Turbocad, SketchUp or go to school for drafting, design, anything like that for any of them. My guess is a bazillion sinks have been installed perfectly without computer aided anything.

More importantly, if I were designing a kitchen, and building all the cabinets myself, which I have also done w/o any computer aided anything, I would certainly use SketchUp rather than just the pencil and paper I've used in the past. I would recommend anyone interested in designing stuff on a computer before building it, give SU a look, it is damned good. For those of you, like Kevin, that go to the wood shop to get away from the computer, you certainly don't need SU or any CAD program to build damned near anything.

If I had a million dollar counter top business I might buy a $30,000 CNC machine and use whatever worked with it, but for sure, I would not slam a piece of free software that so many people find a treat, particularly if I were not interested in learning what all it could do.

So, to summarize, I don't blame you for using all that expensive schooling and software you already have, but I do find you denigrating something you admit to not wanting to "waste time" learning quite stupid, even for you. Perhaps your time would be better "wasted" checking everyones spelling and grammar?

Reply to
Jack Stein

I also don't denigrate SU users. I applaud them. I have no reason to switch to SU as I am happy with what I have. I also own an ultra-sonic thickness meter, just to find out how thick your skull and how thin your skin is. Does that interest you at all?

And why WOULD I waste my time learning an unfamiliar, inadequate piece of software? Free or not?

What is your point, Jack?

Reply to
Robatoy

"Jack Stein" wrote

On that note, framing crew boss has been in the construction trailer four times already this morning saying "Can I see that again?" ... talking about a 2D roof plan on my laptop, which can be orbited to 3D for viewing a 'field change' that needs to be made to a complicated truss layout.

Looks like I *sold* another copy of SU for Google before lunch. ")

Reply to
Swingman

LOL, I think the biggest ob-stakle is that many have tried it, like you and I, and did not like it, like you and I. The difference is that you, me, and others have given it another chance a few more times and with the latest upgrades find that it is quite capable of performing in the same league as more expensive pieces of software when it concerns wood working of most any type. I think the biggest ob-stakle is learning how to think about designing and drawing in a totally different way and knowing that many solutions are accomplished with down loading free plug-ins. The more expensive programs have the plug-ins built in but you pay for them in the package.

BTY I finally mastered the problem of fitting a board between the posts diagonally, even if the posts are not parallel.

ob-stakle : Something to over come, as used in "O'brother Where Art Thou" '~)

Reply to
Leon

Those are reasonable questions. Nothing is free is this world; no free lunches. Here's my pig-slanted view on who and what Google is.

Google is a public company, a profit making concern, not a philanthropic interest. What is their product? What is their revenue stream? If you accumulate enough of it, data becomes more than simply information. It becomes knowledge. Knowledge is power, and power is money. Every month, they serve up 6 billion lookups from their search engines. 6 billion times a month, people go to Google to ask a question with an expectation of finding an answer.

Knowledge is their product. What is their revenue stream? Is it too much of a cop out to say I don't know? If I knew and understood, I would be sitting in a semi-tropic villa looking out on my own slice of paradise, not the frost covered side street that fronts my winter wonderland middle class suburban home. You only need to know this about money: nobody is standing in line to give it away for free, not in stock exchanges on Wall Street, not to entrepreneurs as franchise agreements, and not to unproductive companies. Google is well funded; they're not doing this out of their own pockets.

So, what of Google Earth and Sketchup? Last month, GE added bathymetric data -- ocean bottoms, sea floors -- to their maps. The version before, they added deep sky astronomy. The version I have now has historical data, old maps and old aerial surveys, back to 1994 for my area, older in other areas where available. Knowledge is power, and power is money. To own it, they have to give it away, or at least let you see it. They have it, and now we do. It's a little circular, I know.

But what of Sketchup? What's the tie in? In every near future sci-fi fantasy, somebody at a computer console has building plans and infinite details of the topography. How did it get there? Yesterday, there was nothing. Tomorrow, it's taken for granted. Where did it come from? From public building departments, where plans are filed for building permits? It could, but that would cost a mint. Alas, the cheapest route is a grassroots approach. Here's a tool. Draw a box, take some pictures, and slap them on the outside. Share it with us if you like; don't bother if you don't like. It's a start.

There's also gmail, Google's "free" email service. What a coup that was. Overnight, they effectively subscribed to every private email discussion list. Is there value in knowing who is saying what to whom about what subject? Somebody seems to think so; lots of somebodies with lots of money.

But we were talking of Sketchup. Knowing the motivations for its existence, the capabilities and limitations are hardly surprising. There are no nurbs or real curves, just triangle meshes. These are what GE can display. They don't want or need deeply detailed profiles; the support for drawing that simple sink cutout is abysmal. You could do it, in the same way pigs can fly given enough desire and a large enough catapult. There are better suited tools, animals more aerodynamic than that pig, for that job. Does that denigrate the pig or Sketchup? Not in any way that I can think of. Half the world won't eat pork in any fashion. So what? The rest of the clues are in what SU does well. Take a couple of street-side photos, follow some simple directions, and trace it into a 3D shape; post it to Google.

Does any of that stop you from drawing anything else with it? Of course not. The more use you have of it, the more literate you become in its use, the better the chance you'll actually use it for its intended purpose. It is somewhat "dumbed down", both because of what Google hopes to achieve with it, and also to make it accessible. And this brings us to the other comments, on which I'll take a pass and not respond. All that needs to be said has already been said, perhaps more strongly than I would have, but that's just how people are.

Reply to
MikeWhy

Yeah, but does his feet hurt?

Reply to
Jack Stein

OK, let me rephrase... Perhaps your time would be better wasted pointing out blatant spelling errors on usenet.

Didn't say you did or didn't. You do denigrate SU, never missing an opportunity to point out things it (SU) can't do, whilst admitting not wanting to "waste time" learning it. This generally ends up with Swingman wasting his time pointing out that SU does do what you say it won't.

Good for you!

Only to see how wrong you can be, even with fancy gadgets!

My point is you have to be dumb as dirt to point out the inadequacies of something to which you state you are unfamiliar. It keeps getting worse as Swingman, and others, often point out how little you seem to know about the application.

So, as I have already said, the fact you are familiar with some expensive software, spent cash at school to learn all about CAD is fine, and good for you. Brag about it, complain about it all you want.

Denigrating a hunk of software you are unfamiliar with is just dumb.

Reply to
Jack Stein

Yes, and one of, no, the main reason I kept trying it was Swingman touting the benefits of SU. It may not interface with my $50,000 CNC machine, but then again, I really don't have a $50,000 CNC machine...

Reply to
Jack Stein

"Jack Stein" wrote

Robatoy is a self confessed tool snob. But his comments are interesting, maybe even old school. But he does have skills. And he does let you know what he thinks.

But Robatoy comments, whatever they may be, hardly qualifies for the "denigrating" characterization. His comments are a refreshing alternative/counterweight to the SU cultists. ;_)

We should be encourageing alternative perspectives in this forum. Not "denigrating" those folks who have a different viewpoint.

Reply to
Lee Michaels

Which of you started the grammar/spelling war, before I comment on this? :-)

Reply to
-MIKE-

Still don't understand the point? SU allows woodworkers to draw up 2d and 3d drawings of stuff they wish to build, it does it cheaply (free) and does it well. I think it meets the needs and expectations of most woodworkers. Certainly not every wood worker, perhaps not one that uses a CNC machine that interfaces with perhaps AUTOCAD that costs thousands and probably is used by people designing billion dollar launch pads for NASA, and went to school for x years learning how to use the software.

Most of the stuff wood workers build is made up of straight lines and curves. SU handles those with ease, thats why it's the perfect tool for most woodworkers.

No offense taken, but while I never said that nothing more is needed, I heard someone else say they don't need to draw all the details of things they build. I agree, and more over, when I was building stuff at a furious pace, I hardly needed more than a few pencil lines with numbers on them to build most anything, often not even that.

I still don't really need SU, and certainly nothing more than SU to build stuff, It is really good for looking at exactly how a new design might look before you build it.

I can tell you for sure, as a hobbyist wood worker I absolutely, positively would not spend much (any) money on a cad program when I can spend a few minutes with a pencil drawing up an entire kitchen, or work bench, or lamp, or chair, or desk, or end table, or door or shed and build it just fine. I KNOW this because I've done it. So, from my prospective, and I bet a lot of woodworkers, SU does just the opposite of what was said, it actually opens doors to CAD for woodworkers that would normally never spend a dime on AUTOCAD, TURBOCAD, DESIGN CAD or any other CAD program.

Reply to
Jack Stein

Snip

Here is where I will explain it's short comings a bit more concerning the "curves" that you mentioned above. SU will easily draw the appearance of circles and portions of a circle/an ark. this depends on how many line segments the circle has. Unless there is a plug in some where and please tell me where if there is, you can not draw a relatively smooth irregular curve like a CAD program will. For instance with AutoCAD you can draw a flexible curved through a series of points that are not in a line or quickly draw an ellipse.

Something like an ellipse would be difficult with SU although you can draw one with a bow compass and could on SU at a particular angle but you would be limited. A typical isometric ellipse can be drawn with 4 arcs with 2 different radius.

Reply to
Leon
[snipped the usual.]

Opens doors. That's all it does? Like a stepping stone to real software? Is that is what is in your prospective? The anticipation to expand your limitations? Or did you mean perspective? It is really hard to understand you sometimes, Jack.

Regardless, I have had enough of this thread, and as usual, I have learned a few things. (Least of which is that the price of my CNC went up overnight...cool !!)

*yawns* r
Reply to
Robatoy

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