Sketchup question: Roundover on mitered corners ...

... without having to move heaven and earth?
I just drew this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/
... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a "knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end, using "intersect faces".
I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use "push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle" left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.
But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each end of each length of edging.
Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?
Question 2:
When I try to draw an arc inside a corner, sometimes Sketchup displays a "snap point" when the arc is tangent to the lines that make up the corner, but other times it does not. Does anyone know why?
And lastly: I think I've settled on a design for my next project. I plan to build two of these:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/13973492620/in/set-72157639547178715
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On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

First, you made it into a Group/Component, and were in Edit mode when using the push/pull tool, right? Sorry, had to ask. ;)
Just followed your steps and had no trouble pushing the square end to the inside end point of the miter.
The only thing I can see causing this problem, other than a graphics subsystem incompatibility, is if the "square end" was not square to the axis, in the same plane?

Try holding the mouse down and sliding the arc tool cursor along either of the edges until the "tangent to edge" dialogue appears.
Snapping to a point is essential in a 3d modeling environment and the computer and its graphics subsystem must be compliant with the software for it to work properly.
I'm not suggesting that yours is not compliant, just that these type issues depend more upon the computer, the complexity of the model, whether you are using more than one monitor (graphics card and whether it is using on-board, cpu, or both) and whether the system is just particularly busy at that point.
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On 5/11/2014 11:14 AM, Swingman wrote:

Yup. Just tried it again.

Here's what I did:
I made a 1x3 and rounded off one edge with a continuous arc to make it simpler for the test.
I made a component out of that and went into edit mode. I added a "tag" rectangle 1.5" from the corner:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/13974259830/in/set-72157644623502875
Then I rotated the rectangle 135 degrees about the edge that was attached to the piece:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14158118112/in/set-72157644623502875/
I used "intersect faces" and then erased the parts I didn't need:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14161005604/in/set-72157644623502875/
Then I turned the piece around to the other end:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/13974259530/in/set-72157644623502875/
... and attempted to "push" the end face. It would not allow me to do it. I could however "pull" it out to make it longer.
More to the point, leaving aside this particular issue, is this really the best way to make a mitered rounded-over corner?

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On 5/11/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Just did exactly what you outlined above and could not reproduce your inability to push the square end toward the angled cut.
We all agree there is more than one way to skin a cat, but that does not solve your issue, so let's focus this sub thread, not as another way to accomplish this, but why your steps outlined above does not work on your system?
If you don't mind, email me a model that doesn't work as you describe and let me take a look at it.
Thanks ...
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On 5/11/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

This works pretty easily for me. What I do a bit differently after the slicing plane is in place, and I make it much larger than necessary, in length and in height, is explode everything so that I know that I am not trying to edit an element that is not actually in edit mode.
Select all, right click, intersect faces, with selection, and erase the unwanted parts. Make it into a component again and copy/lengthen/shorten as needed.

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On 5/11/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Ok, here is what you can do, a few less steps. After making one end correctly, select and copy the 45'ed face to the correct location on the back edge. If the 45ed face is 2" in from the back corner copy it to the opposite back corner 2" in from that corner then rotate that 45 copy from the back edge 90 degrees to form the opposite 45ed corner. Select all right click intersect with selection and erase unwanted parts.
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On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I'm mot totally sure what you are having a problem with. What specific step are you having a problem with in creating what?
Assuming you have one piece that is correctly made copy it for all of the other pieces. If they need to be different lengths, simply select the 45'ed end, start the selection box in the upper left corner and drag to the right bottom to capture only the 45'ed section and select "m" for move and drag the end in which ever direction you need to move to lengthen or shorten it.

Zoom in more, your resolution may be too small for the program/operation to snap properly. And move slowly while forming the bulge.

A couple of things, the design looks fine but be sure to use plywood for the shelves, and especially the top
Build both at the same time to save having to set up twice as many times.

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On 5/11/2014 10:28 AM, Leon wrote:

Actually you only have to select only the 45'ed mitered face and move it, pushing or pulling will make it move in the direction that it is facing.
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On 5/11/2014 11:28 AM, Leon wrote:

Now that did work. Thanks. It still seems cumbersome though.

I'll try that.

That's the plan.

Definitely. I've already built a long table/zero-clearance jig for the miter saw, long enough to clamp a stop to it to cut the 16 uprights to the same length, etc.
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On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

<philosophical rant/ramblings>
So, we preach using components and groups of edges and faces, _modeled to coincide precisely with ALL the parts in a woodworking project_ .
That is an absolutely imperative concept to initially get your mind around using 3D modeling software both effectively, and efficiently.
IOW, build the project in the software, just as you would in the shop, before you go into the shop.
However, there are some things that simply don't need to modeled precisely as individual parts.
The idea behind modeling is to be able to quantify the "dimensions" of the parts so you can transfer those dimensions to the material in the shop.
When it comes to doing "round over" profiles for trim and frames, as in your above, I routinely use a simple profile "face", and the "Follow Me" tool, to wrap the "trim" where I want it. (I might add some joint lines, etc., but that would be for visual, and perhaps measuring purposes)
This is much easier and more efficient than trying to make four mitered parts to frame something, and you can still take the appropriate measurements in SketchUp to get the proper dimensions for your mitered parts.
IOW, I don't have to make a perfectly realistic model of a "frame and panel" to get the measurements to make it in the shop ... I already know how to make a frame and panel, I just need the project measurements. ;)
In short, often all that is needed is a single entity which is a visually adequate representation of a frame and panel to take measurements from, without the need to model it in precise detail.
Save yourself some time ... making sawdust is where the rubber meets the road. ;)
</philosophical rant/ramblings>
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On 5/11/2014 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote:> On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: >> ... without having to move heaven and earth? >> >> I just drew this: >> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/ >> >> ... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the >> actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled >> the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a >> "knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end, >> using "intersect faces". >> >> I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use >> "push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle" >> left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it. >> >> But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some >> reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each >> end of each length of edging. >> >> Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing? > > <philosophical rant/ramblings> > > So, we preach using components and groups of edges and faces, _modeled > to coincide precisely with ALL the parts in a woodworking project_ . > > That is an absolutely imperative concept to initially get your mind > around using 3D modeling software both effectively, and efficiently. > > IOW, build the project in the software, just as you would in the shop, > before you go into the shop. > > However, there are some things that simply don't need to modeled > precisely as individual parts.
I get that. I did it to help decide whether I wanted to do a visible roundover or just ease the edges. I think I'm reasonably good at visualizing things in my head, but I wanted to see this particular detail. > > The idea behind modeling is to be able to quantify the "dimensions" of > the parts so you can transfer those dimensions to the material in the shop. > > When it comes to doing "round over" profiles for trim and frames, as in > your above, I routinely use a simple profile "face", and the "Follow Me" > tool, to wrap the "trim" where I want it. (I might add some joint lines, > etc., but that would be for visual, and perhaps measuring purposes)
I have tried that, and have run into a problem there as well. "Follow me" works fine, until it gets to the fourth corner:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/13974687047/
Then it stops and won't wrap around:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14158557112/in/photostream/
> > This is much easier and more efficient than trying to make four mitered > parts to frame something, and you can still take the appropriate > measurements in SketchUp to get the proper dimensions for your mitered > parts. > > IOW, I don't have to make a perfectly realistic model of a "frame and > panel" to get the measurements to make it in the shop ... I already know > how to make a frame and panel, I just need the project measurements. ;)
You'll be happy to know then that I didn't draw in the dozens of hidden dowels. :)
> In short, often all that is needed is a single entity which is a > visually adequate representation of a frame and panel to take > measurements from, without the need to model it in precise detail. > > Save yourself some time ... making sawdust is where the rubber meets the > road. ;) > > </philosophical rant/ramblings> >
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On 5/11/2014 11:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

You are almost doing it right. Again I like to do this in non=component mode so that I know I am in total edit mode.
Draw your 3D rectangle piece, Draw your profile on one corner as usual but before selecting the "follow me" command icon click/select the top face that you want the profile to follow around. Then simply select the follow me icon and click on the section of the profile that needs to be removed and it should place the profile all the way around the surface all at once.

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On 5/11/2014 11:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

There are two ways to use the Follow Me tool:
To drag your profile FACE along a path; or to have the FACE automatically extrude along a path of preselected EDGES.
Which are you using?
My guess is you're using the first?
The second is the best way to use that particular tool.
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On 5/11/2014 11:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Also, for the way you are using it, see if using the _top edge(s)_ as your extrude path works.
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