Sketchup, dowels

While I'm still a novice at Sketchup, I fear I have gotten good enough with it to design things that outstrip my woodworking skills (or my available woodworking *time*. I've been committing ideas to "paper", figuratively speaking; enough to take a year for me to translate into actual wood-and-glue reality.

I'm curious if any of you do something like this:

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... when you're designing a piece, and if there's any simpler way other than copying and pasting.

This would be an end table, which is still deep in the "musing" stage, but I like the general idea. With my tool complement and skill set, I see a couple of issues. The first is how to fasten the 1x2 "pickets" at each end to the rails above and below. (together, they make a roman numeral "III"). I don't have a Domino, and I question whether I would live long enough to cut mortises and tenons for each one, something I've never tried.

I'm thinking of using this BeadLock jig,

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... but not in the usual way. (the usual way being to drill 5 holes that mate with their proprietary tenon stock). I would just drill two adjacent holes and use dowels. Like this:

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Assuming no one has any objections (ha), how would you glue something like that? I only ask because it should not be under any stress at all. Would you: Not use glue at all? Only put glue on the dowels? Or make sure all the mating surfaces have glue?

Is there some other way to join these pieces that's not too "advanced"? I plan to use pocket screws for some of the other joints, but these would show.

That brings me to the next issue. Each "leg" would consist of a 1x3 and a 1x2 joined at a right angle, probably with a slight shadow line. I assume biscuits would do the trick here, and a biscuit joiner is not out of the question, but I'm wondering what other options there might be.

I will remind you that I don't have a table saw, and that my skills are, um, "developing".

Reply to
Greg Guarino
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An alternative is to plow a groove[*] down the length of the top and bottom rails, where the groove is the same width as the verticals, if the verticals are thinner than the rails (which would help reduce the final weight of the end table). I'd use 3/8" verticals with 3/4" rails. Pin or glue the rails in place once spaced appropriately.

The downside is that dust and other crap will collect in the open groove on the bottom rail, but you can fill that with 3/8" filler stock and level to the rail.

[*] With a router, since you don't have a ts.
Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Ok, first off, did you see the detailed answers that were given to your earlier Sketchup questions that you posted about a week ago? Did they help? Did you appreciate the responses? ;~) Want more questions answered?

Reading Scott's response, and to clarify, you have no table saw, is that correct? Assuming so,

Using more than one dowel on the end of each post requires the placement to be dead nuts on or you risk splitting the ends of the stiles. Probably the easiest method would be to use one dowel instead of two on each end and glue. BUT to keep the post from rotating drill a hole in the bottom of the bottom rail under each post and run a screw up inside and into the bottom of each post.

Biscuits, still Dominoe's would be the easiest. With Dominoe's you can elongate one of the mortises to help with alignment should your cuts not be dead on.

I would cut a rabbet along the mating surface of the 1x3 to hlep with alignment and just glue it.

that is what I did here to join the front and back face frames to the side panels.

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If you look closely you cansee how that came together here

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None of my suggestions require a TS.

Reply to
Leon

No table saw makes dowels pretty much your best bet. not sure what other equipment you have.

Pickets

Note necessarily better but different and maybe easier. - Use one dowel at the top end of each picket - Use two screws through pre-drilled holes from the under side of the bottom rail

Reply to
SonomaProducts.com

Fricking Google posted before finished

equipment you have.

Pickets

Not necessarily better but different and maybe easier.

- Use one dowel at the top end of each picket

- Use two screws through pre-drilled holes from the under side of the bo ttom rail - Assembly hint, lay the side structure on a table and use spacers betwe en the pickets to keep them equal and square, clamp up then drive the screw s.

Legs

Dowel at each end wouldn't hurt but could just glue them, no dowel or biscu it needed. Should be very easy to align as needed and if clamped well moder n glue is all you need for that long butt joint. If you had a table saw you could do a kerf with a spline but alas.

Reply to
SonomaProducts.com

It's OK to let slats/spindles float, without glue. However, with chairs I use loose tenon joinery and glue just the mortises and tenons, after pre-finishing:

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A lot can be gleaned from studying these photos. If you have any questions, just ask.

All you need is a plunge router for loose tenons. Since you don't have a table saw to make the loose tenons, make them 1/4" thick and buy project board for a BORG.

Use loose tenon joinery, with a router jig like this:

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I built the _prototype_ for this chair using just a plunge router for the loose tenon joinery:

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Reply to
Swingman

On 1/15/2014 7:06 PM, Leon wrote: > On 1/15/2014 2:23 PM, Greg Guarino wrote: >> While I'm still a novice at Sketchup, I fear I have gotten good enough >> with it to design things that outstrip my woodworking skills (or my >> available woodworking *time*. I've been committing ideas to "paper", >> figuratively speaking; enough to take a year for me to translate into >> actual wood-and-glue reality. >> >> I'm curious if any of you do something like this: >> >>

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>> >> >> ... when you're designing a piece, and if there's any simpler way other >> than copying and pasting. >> >> This would be an end table, which is still deep in the "musing" stage, >> but I like the general idea. With my tool complement and skill set, I >> see a couple of issues. The first is how to fasten the 1x2 "pickets" at >> each end to the rails above and below. (together, they make a roman >> numeral "III"). I don't have a Domino, and I question whether I would >> live long enough to cut mortises and tenons for each one, something I've >> never tried. >> >> I'm thinking of using this BeadLock jig, >> >>
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>> >> ... but not in the usual way. (the usual way being to drill 5 holes that >> mate with their proprietary tenon stock). I would just drill two >> adjacent holes and use dowels. Like this: >> >>
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>> >> > > Ok, first off, did you see the detailed answers that were given to your > earlier Sketchup questions that you posted about a week ago? Did they > help? Did you appreciate the responses? ;~) Want more questions answered? >

In fact, some of those responses have already come in handy. I think I grasp the "component" process better than I did before, for one thing. Sorry for the lack of a reply.

To clarify, I risk splitting while I'm drilling the holes? Or when I try to "force" the piece into alignment with misaligned holes? I'll assume the latter. I was thinking about the alignment myself. I thought maybe I'd give it a dry run with the "Beadlock" jig to see if I could get it accurate enough.

Clever. I could recess the screw in the bottom rail and it would never be seen. And I'd have half as many (precision) holes to drill.

I was considering buying a biscuit joiner to attach the "leg" pieces together. I have no experience with biscuits, but from what I've seen on TV (you can all snicker now), it doesn't look like you could fit a biscuit into the end of a 1x2. Can you?

still Dominoe's would be the easiest. With Dominoe's you can > elongate one of the mortises to help with alignment should your cuts not > be dead on.

Looks like a great system, but a little pricey for an occasional dabbler like myself.

Interesting. That would slim down the (visible) edge of the 2x3, but it is a technique that is within my skill set. I may draw it out that way and see what I think of it. Thanks. >> >> I will remind you that I don't have a table saw, and that my skills are, >> um, "developing". >> > > None of my suggestions require a TS.

Thanks.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

On 1/15/2014 7:36 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote: > Note necessarily better but different and maybe easier. > - Use one dowel at the top end of each picket > - Use two screws through pre-drilled holes from the under side of the bottom rail

I hadn't thought about the fact that the bottom won't be seen. I may go with some variation on this idea. Thanks.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

So far, I haven't got a plunge router. But I think I can see one from here. :)

I'm curious about that jig (partly because it looks simple enough for me to make). It looks as if it uses the bottom plate/body of the router running along the stops in the jig for alignment. Is that preferable in some way to a jig with a bearing-guided bit or a guide ring? Or can you even use such things with a plunge router? (feel free to take a deep breath if the ignorance gets too thick in here)

In addition, it looks as if the width of the mortise is not simply the diameter of the bit; the router follows one fence, then moves over a tad to follow the other fence in the opposite direction. Is that correct? You shim the fences and stops to control the length and thickness?

Lastly, "project board" means the thin hardwood slats they sell at HD? Presumably I'd need to rout the tenon stock to round the edges, preferably to the same radius as the router bit that made the mortises?

Reply to
Greg Guarino

Yes, when pressing the parts together. Also be certain that the holes in the top and bottom rails are directly above/below one another or your pickets will not stand plumb.

Exactly

Yes, if you buy the PC557 with the FF blade and use FF biscuits. Those are pretty small.

That is true.

You can make the rabbet relative shallow, 1/8" and you porbably would only be able to tell by measuring. All you need is that shallow ledge to keep the mating 1x2 piece from sliding across the face of the 1x3.

Reply to
Leon

----------------------------------------- A router with both a fixed and a plunge base, a home built mortising jig for the PB router and you're in business.

How you get a bunch of duplicate slats without a table saw is another issue.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

I've seen the 2 1/4 h.p. Dewalt DW618 "kit", IIRC (with fixed and plunge base) for well under $200 recently, maybe $159. But that may have something to do with the holidays. I noticed since I paid more than $200 a couple of years ago...lol.

Reply to
Bill

That shouldn't be a problem. I jury-rigged this:

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... to trim the shelves on my latest project to exact length, because this:

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...wasn't long enough to affix a stop to.

I figure to make a longer zero-clearance "table" the same way I made the first one. I have one or two (hopefully simpler) projects in mind first, but if I build the end tables this way I'll need to make a lot of duplicated slats.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

Check your incoming ...

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I can round over the edges of 1/4" tenon stock almost as fast with a file/rasp as I can setting up a round over bit on the router table, so don't tailed tools stop you. ;)

Note: 1/4" thick loose tenons fulfill the classic requirement for tenons being 1/3rd the thickness of 3/4" thick stock.

Reply to
Swingman

Yes I do it as and yes there is a simpler way. As I explained recently, you can use "Move" modified with control to make and move as many duplicates as you desire. You can set the spacing too. ________________

In that case, why not just make your own gizmo? Drill two holes in a 2x4 with the spacing desired, add fences to position a workpiece, put on workpiece, drill through the holes in the 2x4. _________________

Id put glue on the dowels and a bit on the other surfaces but not so much that it squeezes out.

If you want to use thickened epoxy, you don't need the dowels. _______________

You could screw/nail through the bottom rail into the end pieces, wouldn't show. They would show in the middle rail but that isn't necessarily bad.

You could rout the rails so thay have a tenon, route matching tongues in the uprights and cut off excess tongue later. Fussy and I wouldn't do it but it could be done. You could do it vice versa too; i.e., groove in the rails, tongue on the spindles, fill the empty portions of the groove later (with wood). I have done that, not all that hard. ________________

Plain glue. That is all you need.. If you just have to have a mechanical joint too, tongue & groove. Or dowels; T&G is easier but if you wanted to use through dowels and let them show, that is easy.

Reply to
dadiOH

Right. Clamp to work, run router around fences. The hard part is getting the mortice centered; however, it isn't necessary to get the mortice dead center, you just have to pay attention to how you attach the jig to the workpiece...be sure that any offset from center is correct for where the workpiece will be attached.

One could. Or, one could make moveable fences.

Reply to
dadiOH

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea. One of the great things about dadoes and rabbets (besides the fact that I have been successful at making them) is that once they are cut, there's no more worry about alignment; the precise amount of imprecision is locked in. :)

Reply to
Greg Guarino

Thanks, and thanks for telling me to check my email; I don't regularly use that account. I'll read it at my leisure ... whenever that might be. I may need to print it to read on the train.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

I take from that comment that the fit need not be exact, except, I suppose, thickness-wise.

so

I haven't so far. I can't afford "tailed" tools. :)

Reply to
Greg Guarino

The Ryobi trim biscuit joiner that I have would.

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There is a picture of it in the article.

Mark

Reply to
Markem

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