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On 4/10/2012 12:43 PM, Dave wrote:

You are a lying sack of shit.
How's that?
I don't lie, ever, period. The lumber at my HD is as good or better than the same grade lumber sold around here in 1970's. The prices I looked up, I didn't guess. I guess you need to take my word on the quality, but trust me, I have no reason to lie, and wouldn't if I did.
The cheap crap

I mentioned #2 grade, which has small knots. I always had to look through the wood stacks when I bought lumber, just as I do now. Then, as now, they always manage to get some really good stuff, and some really bad stuff mixed in the stacks of lumber, regardless of the grading. HD does not sell #1 select, and I never, or almost never bought that anyway, it is rare to find, and commercial furniture builders scoop most of it up, so it was always expensive, and only carried at large or specialty lumber yards.

That's garbage Dave, as long as I've been buying wood, the width of lumber has been the same. A 2x6 is 5.5 inches, same as it was then. A 1x8 is 7 1/4, same as it was then. You don't know what your talking about, or your HD is ripping you off.
Doesn't matter how much you're willing to pay for

Yes, super expensive at HD, but they only sell top quality Oak at my HD. I know they have 1x6, not sure about 1x8. You shouldn't use bigger than 1x6 for table top glue ups anyway, unless it's quarter sawn, which nobody can afford, unless you are a Texan:-)

Well yeah, HD is not selling Festool stuff. But at *my* HD they sell high quality OAK, and they sell very good #2 white wood (pine). I never bought oak veneer ply from them, but my guess is it is the same or better than I would get at Allegheny Plywood, a plywood place I used to by oak veneered ply when I was doing that stuff. They had some crappy stuff there then, probably same as now, but haven't bought any recently.
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And you're calling me a lying sack of shit? Over and over, you seem to be the one arguing one side of the fence while everybody else is on the other side. Why is that? I can only suppose it's a desperate need for attention. Why else would you be right and everybody else be wrong?
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On 4/10/2012 3:54 PM, Dave wrote:

So far, you are the ONLY one stating HD wood is not as wide as it used to be, or that cheap wood was knot free and straight grained in the 70's. You are wrong on both counts, and it doesn't matter if no one or everyone agrees with you.

I don't know, you clearly are an idiot, and if I wasn't in "desperate need for attention", I guess I would simply let you prattle on unchallenged.

Dunno. How wide are the boards now at your HD? Perhaps your tape measure is out of whack?
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Jack
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Jack wrote:

I've rarely had need for 2x6 but time was when a 2x4 was 1 5/8 x 3 5/8. Now, 1 1/2 x 3 1/2.
As far as quality goes, things like clear, edge grain fir were readily available at decent prices (in the west at least). FAS hardwoods too. That was pre-Home Depot.
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On 4/11/2012 6:54 AM, dadiOH wrote:

I recall that too but then again 2x stock was hard wood at one time also. The current measurement of 2x stock has been common for at least 40 years... A friend did some remodeling of his old 20's home, wall studs were oak.

Don't blame the current big box stores for bringing poor quality lumber, they are not the producers and I recall seeing "piss" poor lumber, 8' 2x4's with a 7 inch bow, long before I ever saw a HomePro/Builders Square.Home Depot or Lowes. Remember Handy Dan? That was here I recall seeing the stack of bowed 2x4's.
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Sure it's their fault. They could supply the better quality stuff if they wanted to. But, before a dozen people reply, I'll admit that the demand for cheaper products is driven by the consumer.
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Where I think the quality/price battle is being lost is in educating the purchaser. Menards carries 4x8 sheets of Birch-faced plywood. One stack is priced at $30, and the other stack is priced at $40. What's the difference?
There's nothing on the display to indicate what's different and the guy at the store doesn't know, so how am I supposed to make an informed decision? All I have to go on is price, and lower is better.
I don't mind paying extra for better quality, but you have to show me where to look.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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On 12 Apr 2012 01:05:08 GMT, Puckdropper

That's where time and experience comes in. That, and knowing that if it's coming from Home Depot, youse takes yur chances.
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In other words, you were getting shit in the 70's, and you're getting shit today.
Clearly, there will be geographical differences in what is available.
In the west, in the 70's, even regular studs were old-growth douglas fir, tight straight grain. In the 70's, old-growth redwood was common and beautiful. Good luck finding either today.
scott
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On 4/11/2012 12:02 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The lumber at my HD is as good or better

No, I was getting #2 lumber then, just as now.

Very likely.

Not around here. If fact, long before the 70's old growth (domestic) lumber was all but non existent around here. Most all old growth forests were cut and milled long, long ago, and the few remaining are not accessible to loggers.
In the 70's, old-growth redwood was common

In the early 70's I bought a redwood picnic table. I actually thought it was Redwood. When I started assembling it, turned out it was really white wood (pine) stained red. I actually, in my youth, called the Better Business Bureau and he asked if it was Redwood or redwood...
Anyway, I didn't think Redwood grew anywhere but California, and cutting those babies was not happening anymore?
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If you'd read what I wrote, you would have noticed the "In the 70's" and "good luck finding it today".
As it happens, there is still quite a bit of redwood being cut, as it grows relatively fast. None of it is old-growth (100+ year old trees), the few that are left are protected.
Of that which _is_ being cut, there is much less heartwood, which is the most insect and rot resistant. Most wood fencing material in california is redwood, still.
scott (still holding onto two nice redwood burl slabs - 48 x 30 x 3 waney).
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On 4/11/2012 3:28 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

I did read what you wrote, ergo my reply.

I wondered where they were getting redwood, I mean Redwood.

Someone once gave me old Redwood picnic table that was actually Redwood. I think it was one of the only Redwood things I owned. It rotted and I salvaged what I could and made stuff for around my pool. It was nice, but really soft wood.
--
Jack
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On 4/10/2012 9:49 AM, Jack wrote:

Well, taking money out of circulation works too. One might even argue that the reduction in the value of home prices reduced purchasing power, which may have increased the relative value of a dollar. No?
Perhaps that partly explains why the rate of inflation now is not higher now than I anticipated it would be.
Bill
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On 4/10/2012 11:15 AM, Bill wrote:

It isn't high? Things have doubled in price in the last few years. The Gov. reports low inflation. Yet doubling is not low. Sorry I don't agree with the inflation numbers. There's something wrong with them.

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On 4/10/2012 12:34 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

Yes, some things have increased alot. I don't have a convenient "marketbasket" to compare. It would be interesting to assemble one.
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Bill wrote:

Here are a few thing I recall...
1940s Shakes, malts, ice cream sodas : $0.15 Banana split: $0.35 Hot dog: $0.10 with chili: $0.12 Comic books: $0.10 Ice cream cone: $0.05 one scoop, $0.10 two scoops Most candy bars: $0.05. Ditto soft drinks 4 BR/1 bath house w/finished attic: $5500 Smaller home: $3500 Post WW2 new tract home: <$10,000 Bread: $0.10/loaf Milk: $0.10/quart
1951 Minimum wage: $0.75 1939 Chevy "Town & Country" business coupe: $175 Gas: usually, low $0.20s. Sometimes more, sometimes less. A quarter each from myself & two friends would let us ride around for hours saying... "Whatta you wanna do?" "I dunno, whatta *YOU* wanna do?" Hamburger, White Castle: $0.10 Hamburger, normal: $0.25 Hamburger, deluxe (lettuce & tomato): $0.35 Decent dinner for two in good restaurant: < $5.00 Rent, 1 BR furnished Honolulu apartment: $65 Salary, "girl friday", low end: $35/week
1954-58 Minimum wage: $1.00 (1955?) Beer by the case: $0.10/bottle Beer at neighborhood bar: $0.25 Call whisky at upscale SF bar: $1.00 1/5 Haig & Haig Pinch scotch: $8.99 1951 Studebacker Starlight coupe: $795 Head of lettuce: $0.29 (?) Pound of hamburger: $0.29 One way air, SF > LA: $13 Rent, 1 BR unfuurnished apartment: $85/month State university tuition: $15/credit hour Local cafe type restaurant meal: $0.55 - $1.00 3# box of American cheese, *NOT* sliced & wrapped: $3.00
1956 New Ford Victoria (not Crown): $2000 +-
1958 One way air, SF > Honolulu: > $175 Rent, 1 BR furnished Honolulu apartment: $135+ Couch, 2 chairs, 3 tables, 3 lamps, dining table w/6 chairs, room divider/planter, 200+ sq.ft abaca rug, 8x10 seagrass rug; all from mid-upper store, all rattan: $1500
1959-late 60s (all Honolulu, more expensive than mainland) 3 BR tract house, leased land: $19000-25000 Ice cream: $0.69/half gallon New 1965 Datsun (Nissan) station wagon: $2500 New 1966 Triumph Spitfire: $2500 Rent, 1500 sq.ft commercial space: $250/month Salary, "girl friday": $220-250/month Air dried koa: $0.50 brd.ft Walnut: $1.25 brd.ft Teak: $1.35 brd.ft Dinner for two at upscale French restaurant including drinks & tip: $25 Local cafe type restaurant meal: $0.95-1.50 (included soup or appetizer, salad, bread & butter, entree, starch, vegetable, beverage & dessert).
--

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Bill wrote:

Here's a link to a site with a *ton* of historic price info... http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq5.html
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On 4/10/2012 11:15 AM, Bill wrote:

Well yeah, but that ain't happening.
One might even argue

No. Purchasing power is determined by productivity. Printing or destroying paper money has nothing to do with anything, other than can you purchase out of your wallet, out of a wheelbarrow, or with huge numbers on your bills.

No, the inflation rate is not higher because the lying asses in government are... are you sitting.. lying their ass off. It is impossible for government to print money willy nilly w/o inflation resulting. Obama owes $11 Trillion or so, and all he needs to do is print a bunch of Trillion dollar bills and it would be not that much. A loaf of bread would take a boat load of those bills, but, hey, it works. Ask Weimar, he'll explain it, or wait around a bit, you will find out first hand.
--
Jack
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For your information, Obama doesn't:
1) owe anybody anything 2) have responsibility for the deficts that were inflicted on the country by: a) the republican tax reductions without corresponding reductions in spending[**] b) the trillions spent on two unnecessary wars by a republican administration (and unprecedented tax cuts during war!) c) congress passes budgets, not the president, so it is the idiot republicans who are completely and directly responsible for the current deficits (note that if we'd continued with the tax rates in effect in 2000, and had no unnecessary and illegal wars[*], we'd have zero deficit and no debt today.)
scott
[*] bin laden could have been taken out sans war, as was indeed the case. [**] trickle down theory was dead with the reagan administration, who was smart enough to raise taxes 7 of his 8 years.
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On 4/11/2012 11:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Actually he owes us the responsibility of being the president.

Actually you can blame "ALL" past administrations, Republican and Democrat. And if you want to be technical it was during Jimmy Carters administration that the United States first learned what being in debt over one trillion dollars was all about.

And that is a matter of opinion and don't for get Viet Nam, screw the money spent there, look at the numbers of lost lives during that war. Thank you LBJ.

What are you smoking???
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