sizing home jointers and planers?

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On 4/8/2012 8:06 AM, Dave wrote:

http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/products/jointer –planers/jointer-planer-a3-41--410-mm.html
Maybe you were looking for...
<http://www.olivermachinery.net/index.php?node=machines&type_id=3&modelR40
:)
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That hammer is awesome. I like the doweling and mortising capability in one unit. Wooo hooo.
On 4/8/2012 9:06 AM, Dave wrote:

http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/products/jointer –planers/jointer-planer-a3-41--410-mm.html
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On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 10:50:11 -0400, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>

There's only one problem. As time goes by machines are getting better and more capable, but the quality of available wood is diminishing right in front of our eyes. Of course, living in the centre of a city will do that to you.
When I win the lottery and can afford all these great new tools, I'll be moving to some house on a pristine lake with a substantial stand of harvestable trees around me. Or at the very least, a decent lumber yard within traveling distance.
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No doubt that you are right about the lumber. Even man made lumber (ply) is diminishing in quality.
And the price is getting up there for all, hardwoods, softwoods, and ply.
Even Veneer is outrageous in price and sometimes quality.
But it is the cards we are dealt. When you win the lottery and get that home, give me a call, I'll take care of that forrest for you. You'll be too rich to want to play with wood.
8>)
Happy Easter.
On 4/8/2012 2:18 PM, Dave wrote:

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tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in

I'm giving up on ply. At least on the nicer face veneers that they charge more for. I figure for only a little more I can cut my own veneers from thick stock and get not only something I can sand, but a material where tear out is much less likely.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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On 08 Apr 2012 19:30:34 GMT, Puckdropper

Important that you mentioned that. I still buy VC, veneered ply, but I'm noticed the last several years how the most important layer, the top veneer layer is getting thinner and thinner. Even with the initial sanding, one has to be careful not to sand through it.
I'm almost at the stage where I'm considering buying just a regular sheet of ply and facing it with a separate layer of veneer that I've bought separately.
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On 4/8/2012 3:04 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

Price is high but is the true cost any different? I heard somewhere that in 1920 you could buy a gallon of gas for 2 dimes, and if you melted the silver out of those two dimes today, you could still buy a gallon of gas with them. Wood is probably no different.
Governments reduce their debt by printing funny money. The value of money can only be increased by increasing productivity, not with a printing press.
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Jack
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Sorry, can't agree with that viewpoint. The big difference these days is the fact that the availability of quality wood has diminished greatly. Sure, top quality wood is still available if you've got the bucks, but even the high price hasn't kept up with the loss of quality wood products. This is evidenced by the vanishing of lumberyards and the companies who specialize in reclaimed wood.
Hell, it's pretty obvious when we see plastic composites replacing deck boards. Sure, much the demand for this counterfeit cedar is driven by people wanting material that doesn't decay. But, a great deal of that demand is also driven by the high cost accompanied by the lessening availability of the real product.
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On 4/10/2012 10:59 AM, Dave wrote:

Depends on what you mean by quality wood. Certainly wood from rain forests is scarce, or illegal to buy, so the price is high. I just went to my shop and found some papers on stuff I made in 1978. I had paid 42 cents a foot for #2 2x6 pine. Looking up at HD today, the same wood is 63 cents a foot. Going to http://www.westegg.com inflation calculator, that same board should cost $1.39 in 2010, the last year they had, so it's even better than that. And yes, the quality of the wood is the same or better than what I got in 1978. This may not be true of all species of wood, but is for the most commonly used stuff. In fact, I remember big stores like Busy Beaver sold #4 junk graded as #2, so I would generally buy from a higher priced yard where #2 was #2. HD, at least mine, the #2 is mostly pretty decent stuff, no complaints from me.
Sure, top quality wood is still available if you've got the

Lumberyards have just about disappeared from my area. I need to buy some hard wood and don't even know where to go. HD sells super high quality, select #1 oak at like a $million a foot. Rockler sells all sorts of crap at unbelievable prices. There is one lumber yard left in my area and I hated that place 40 years ago because of high prices and lack of selection, so won't go there.

Every time I stain my deck, (every other year) I wish I would have used plastic instead of real wood.
But, a great

I don't think wolmanized decking is any more expensive now than it was 25 years ago, adjusted for inflation. I don't have prices for when I built my deck, so can only guess, unlike what I did above.
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Jack
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Jack, have you bought from local mills, or guys that do their own wood.
I buy from guys that are not your traditional lumber yards. More like mills.
Some advertise on the side of the road... hardwood for sale. at first when I moved here I thought these guys were selling firewood. Then it dawned on me it doesn't say firewood.
Stop going to the HD for hardwood. Awful stuff. And no it's not high quality. High Quality is straight and not twisted. These HD crap are already surfaced on four sides. How can you clean them up if they are twisted like pretzels.
So I have never bought from a lumber or HD quality wood. I have seen it in old pieces of furniture that I have refinished.. tight growth rings. Beautiful looks. What I buy from HD is ply or 2x4. But even that I am reluctant too lately. All the ply I got from HD twisted like a pretzel. How stable is a piece of ply that has a huge bow in it... Pretty stable. I can't get it flat again.
I have gotten some decent wood from these small mills. So I'll respectfully disagree.
On 4/10/2012 12:10 PM, Jack wrote:

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On 4/10/2012 12:33 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

That's what I'm looking for, but not the specialty guys that charge an arm and a leg.

Never bought hardwood from HD, but I looked at it.
And no it's not high quality.
Yes, at my HD it is high quality, no knots, no twist, select #1 at select #1 prices, plus.
High Quality is straight and not twisted. These HD crap are

They are not twisted, they don't need cleaned up. Very good stuff.

The last sheet of ply I bought from HD was super good. I was looking for some junk 3/4" ply for the bottom of my lumber rack. They had junk at $18 a sheet, but they also had a big stack of good stuff on sale for $23. One look and I knew $5 more was well worth it. I felt guilty using that quality of wood for the bottom of my lumber rack, but forced myself to do it:-) They didn't have of that again, that I saw.

Yes, I'm looking for one now. I was on vacation in Lake George, NY and the place we stayed at had a small specialty lumber yard right next door. They had good stuff at decent prices, and I was going to load up my truck but got pressed for time and passed. It was the most exciting part of the vacation:-) Don't know where on earth they got the wood, as the whole damn place is a national park or something and not allowed to cut trees, dead or alive? I think if a chainsaw was heard, a tree hugging swat team would swoop down and shoot the sorry sucker.
--
Jack
Got Change: Supply and Demand ======> Command and Control!
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*snip*

*snip*
Every once in a while they'll buy some good plywood and sell it for an excellent price. It's worth a look when you're in the store. If your HD has a cull cart, that's worth a look as well. (Just don't pick over the cart at my local store until I've had a chance! :-))
Puckdropper
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Pointing up at the above answers:
Well, I guess this answers the question of where to buy commercial jointers and planers
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That easy... A LOT of nice stuff has been coming through on Craigs List the past few years. ;~)
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wrote:

You're || -that- close, Pat!
The real answer is either 42 or Amazon/eBay/HD/HFT, but only after you've checked http://www.toolseeker.com/ to get a good idea.
-- Resolve to be thyself: and know, that he who finds himself, loses his misery. -- Matthew Arnold
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That I always do, for 51cents a piece in the cull cart I will get the bargain.
On 4/10/2012 2:27 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

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On 4/10/2012 2:27 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

My store used to have a cull cart and I never went into the store w/o going over it. Some days it was jammed with good stuff. They no longer have it, at least for the past few months. I hate going to any store, I hate shopping, barely tolerate going to tool/hardware stores. I know I went to HD more than I do now just because I enjoyed the cull cart. I've made some nice deck furniture, chairs and benches, and even a pool (spectator) chair out of that stuff. The spectator chair I made as a prototype, planning to make it out of oak if it turned out well. It turned out so well I didn't bother to make another one in oak.
http://jbstein.com/Flick/PoolChair1030955.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/PoolChair1030948.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/P1050208.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/P1010981.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/P1040481.jpg
The majority of the wood in all those came from HD, and most of it from the cull cart at 50 cents a board. The spectator chair probably cost me $2.50 to build, in fact all the wood in the above pictures probably didn't cost me $20.
--
Jack
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If you are ever at Lake George again consider renting an island. You have to reserve it early. But camping on those islands is great. The breeze is refreshing. The water clear. The fishing unbeleavable. My BIL and I went out at 5am and we were just trolling, and he caught a lake trout without a down rigger. It was unbelievable watching him take this fish in. The dance on the water was outstanding.
They have bass by the buckets. The kids (all young then) had a blast.
They have islands with 1,2,3 ... 120 camping spots. So you can pick yours out. We liked the north east side of the lake for camping.
On 4/10/2012 1:46 PM, Jack wrote:

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On 4/10/2012 4:39 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

We went on one of the boat tours and saw those islands. Looked great but our camping days are long past us. At one time camping was a large part of our free time and we commented how great it would have been to take our boat and camp on one of those islands.
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That's garbage Jack and you know it. The cheap wood in 1978 was essentially straight grained and mostly knot free. The cheap crap you're comparing to these days is full of knots and you can't find straight grain if your life depended on it. *That's* what I mean when I mention quality.
And, your example of Home Depot also falls short. Board width has diminished at HD. Doesn't matter how much you're willing to pay for it. If you wanted to make a table out of hardwood with HD wood, you'd be joining a larger number of pieces of hard wood. I can remember 8" hard wood availability at HD. You can't find it now because it costs too damned much and isn't a customer demanded product because of that high cost.
I used to buy hard wood oak veneered plywood at Home Depot. I stopped doing that four or five years ago because I realized the veneered plywood they were stocking had a thinner veneered oak layer on it. So thin in fact, that you have to be extra careful you don't sand through it. It effect, it's cheap and not worth the money being asked for it. Slice it up anyway you want, HD exists on the cheap end of the spectrum and has always done so. Just, that they do it even more now.
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