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I've seen (I believe it was Oliver but been too long ago for absolute certain and OWWM doesn't have one altho that's certainly not conclusive) a 30". 36" is largest I've ever heard of in actual configuration we think of as a jointer; there are yet larger "facers" but other than stumbling on the one Oliver below I didn't look further for examples.
So, after a little looking
30"An Oliver 30" facer
and everybody's absolute need, the 36
No doubt that you are right about the lumber. Even man made lumber (ply) is diminishing in quality.
And the price is getting up there for all, hardwoods, softwoods, and ply.
Even Veneer is outrageous in price and sometimes quality.
But it is the cards we are dealt. When you win the lottery and get that home, give me a call, I'll take care of that forrest for you. You'll be too rich to want to play with wood.
8>)Happy Easter.
tiredofspam wrote in news:jNKdnWaNPui2fBzSnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:
I'm giving up on ply. At least on the nicer face veneers that they charge more for. I figure for only a little more I can cut my own veneers from thick stock and get not only something I can sand, but a material where tear out is much less likely.
Puckdropper
On 08 Apr 2012 19:30:34 GMT, Puckdropper
Important that you mentioned that. I still buy VC, veneered ply, but I'm noticed the last several years how the most important layer, the top veneer layer is getting thinner and thinner. Even with the initial sanding, one has to be careful not to sand through it.
I'm almost at the stage where I'm considering buying just a regular sheet of ply and facing it with a separate layer of veneer that I've bought separately.
of the commercially available jointers are 6" and the planers are about 12". What's the point in having a planer twice as large?
Well... you really shouldn't run a glue up through a planer. The glue will play hell with your blades. No glue, no poaint, just wood ro the blades die. Also, if you have any spring or cup in your glue up the planer might crack the glue joint.
Get a drum sander or wide belt sander if you want to flatten glue ups.
Disagree on both counts. As long as it is huge globs of a very hard glue, the glue isn't as hard as most woods and won't do any significant damage to a planer (or jointer) knife.
And, as has been demonstrated in many tests, a good glueline joint is stronger than the surrounding wood; if there's that severe a cup and there's a failure, odds are very high it will be the wood that fails, not the glueline.
Not that having a wide belt sander isn't a good thing but certainly it's not a verboten to plane down a glue up.
of the commercially available jointers are 6" and the planers are about 12". What's the point in having a planer twice as large?
I don't think you have been looking at "commercial grade" equipment if that's all you have seen.
A 6" jointer is about the smallest you can buy.
A 12" planer is also quite small by commercial standards.
Here are a few examples:
The 6" jointer is fine for smaller, shorter stock, while the 8" is for wider and longer stock. The 8" jointer normally has a MUCH longer table,ex:
6" jointer 46" 8" jointer 76"The planers also follow similar patterns.
If you buy s4s lumber, a big jointer is not needed but if you buy rough cut, the need is there for the jointer and the planer.
The smaller "lunch box" planer(12") is fine for many shops and is MUCH cheaper to get into. The next step up is a
15" and that's when price makes a real difference. You are paying for bigger, much more powerful motors and heavier equipment. a standard 15" planer is "about" 340 lbs, while the 12" is 76 lbs.
...
A nicely built little 4" jointer. Dad had one; brother has it now. As noted, the disadvantage of the smaller ones is the shorter bed lengths; "bigger is better" is certainly true w/ jointers, especially.
The only thing I disliked w/ the Delta 4" is that doing the cabinets for folks used some hard maple for the facings and the lightness of the cutterhead made it chatter more than one would like if tried to face a
2"+ piece; just not enough mass. It did fine on jointing glue edges even on the maple.--
Yes...that was a nice little jointer 50 years ago.
Over at owwm.org, I see many restorations of those jointers.
That is 37-290 Deluxe I believe.
Price is high but is the true cost any different? I heard somewhere that in 1920 you could buy a gallon of gas for 2 dimes, and if you melted the silver out of those two dimes today, you could still buy a gallon of gas with them. Wood is probably no different.
Governments reduce their debt by printing funny money. The value of money can only be increased by increasing productivity, not with a printing press.
Sorry, can't agree with that viewpoint. The big difference these days is the fact that the availability of quality wood has diminished greatly. Sure, top quality wood is still available if you've got the bucks, but even the high price hasn't kept up with the loss of quality wood products. This is evidenced by the vanishing of lumberyards and the companies who specialize in reclaimed wood.
Hell, it's pretty obvious when we see plastic composites replacing deck boards. Sure, much the demand for this counterfeit cedar is driven by people wanting material that doesn't decay. But, a great deal of that demand is also driven by the high cost accompanied by the lessening availability of the real product.
Well, taking money out of circulation works too. One might even argue that the reduction in the value of home prices reduced purchasing power, which may have increased the relative value of a dollar. No?
Perhaps that partly explains why the rate of inflation now is not higher now than I anticipated it would be.
Bill
Depends on what you mean by quality wood. Certainly wood from rain forests is scarce, or illegal to buy, so the price is high. I just went to my shop and found some papers on stuff I made in 1978. I had paid 42 cents a foot for #2 2x6 pine. Looking up at HD today, the same wood is
63 cents a foot. Going toSure, top quality wood is still available if you've got the
Lumberyards have just about disappeared from my area. I need to buy some hard wood and don't even know where to go. HD sells super high quality, select #1 oak at like a $million a foot. Rockler sells all sorts of crap at unbelievable prices. There is one lumber yard left in my area and I hated that place 40 years ago because of high prices and lack of selection, so won't go there.
Every time I stain my deck, (every other year) I wish I would have used plastic instead of real wood.
But, a great
I don't think wolmanized decking is any more expensive now than it was
25 years ago, adjusted for inflation. I don't have prices for when I built my deck, so can only guess, unlike what I did above.Jack, have you bought from local mills, or guys that do their own wood.
I buy from guys that are not your traditional lumber yards. More like mills.
Some advertise on the side of the road... hardwood for sale. at first when I moved here I thought these guys were selling firewood. Then it dawned on me it doesn't say firewood.
Stop going to the HD for hardwood. Awful stuff. And no it's not high quality. High Quality is straight and not twisted. These HD crap are already surfaced on four sides. How can you clean them up if they are twisted like pretzels.
So I have never bought from a lumber or HD quality wood. I have seen it in old pieces of furniture that I have refinished.. tight growth rings. Beautiful looks. What I buy from HD is ply or 2x4. But even that I am reluctant too lately. All the ply I got from HD twisted like a pretzel. How stable is a piece of ply that has a huge bow in it... Pretty stable. I can't get it flat again.
I have gotten some decent wood from these small mills. So I'll respectfully disagree.
It isn't high? Things have doubled in price in the last few years. The Gov. reports low inflation. Yet doubling is not low. Sorry I don't agree with the inflation numbers. There's something wrong with them.
That's garbage Jack and you know it. The cheap wood in 1978 was essentially straight grained and mostly knot free. The cheap crap you're comparing to these days is full of knots and you can't find straight grain if your life depended on it. *That's* what I mean when I mention quality.
And, your example of Home Depot also falls short. Board width has diminished at HD. Doesn't matter how much you're willing to pay for it. If you wanted to make a table out of hardwood with HD wood, you'd be joining a larger number of pieces of hard wood. I can remember 8" hard wood availability at HD. You can't find it now because it costs too damned much and isn't a customer demanded product because of that high cost.
I used to buy hard wood oak veneered plywood at Home Depot. I stopped doing that four or five years ago because I realized the veneered plywood they were stocking had a thinner veneered oak layer on it. So thin in fact, that you have to be extra careful you don't sand through it. It effect, it's cheap and not worth the money being asked for it. Slice it up anyway you want, HD exists on the cheap end of the spectrum and has always done so. Just, that they do it even more now.
Well yeah, but that ain't happening.
One might even argue
No. Purchasing power is determined by productivity. Printing or destroying paper money has nothing to do with anything, other than can you purchase out of your wallet, out of a wheelbarrow, or with huge numbers on your bills.
No, the inflation rate is not higher because the lying asses in government are... are you sitting.. lying their ass off. It is impossible for government to print money willy nilly w/o inflation resulting. Obama owes $11 Trillion or so, and all he needs to do is print a bunch of Trillion dollar bills and it would be not that much. A loaf of bread would take a boat load of those bills, but, hey, it works. Ask Weimar, he'll explain it, or wait around a bit, you will find out first hand.
That's what I'm looking for, but not the specialty guys that charge an arm and a leg.
Never bought hardwood from HD, but I looked at it.
And no it's not high quality.
Yes, at my HD it is high quality, no knots, no twist, select #1 at select #1 prices, plus.
High Quality is straight and not twisted. These HD crap are
They are not twisted, they don't need cleaned up. Very good stuff.
The last sheet of ply I bought from HD was super good. I was looking for some junk 3/4" ply for the bottom of my lumber rack. They had junk at $18 a sheet, but they also had a big stack of good stuff on sale for $23. One look and I knew $5 more was well worth it. I felt guilty using that quality of wood for the bottom of my lumber rack, but forced myself to do it:-) They didn't have of that again, that I saw.
Yes, I'm looking for one now. I was on vacation in Lake George, NY and the place we stayed at had a small specialty lumber yard right next door. They had good stuff at decent prices, and I was going to load up my truck but got pressed for time and passed. It was the most exciting part of the vacation:-) Don't know where on earth they got the wood, as the whole damn place is a national park or something and not allowed to cut trees, dead or alive? I think if a chainsaw was heard, a tree hugging swat team would swoop down and shoot the sorry sucker.
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