signing your work

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RonB wrote:

If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to be built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines are building it (even if it's your design) in a production line, or if you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you if you make that same claim.
--
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Steve Turner wrote:

Even if the hired labor is a bunch of Amish lads who work exclusively and exquisitely with hand tools?
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Hand tools?
There is an Amish community west of Wichita, Kansas with a couple of furniture making operations. One of them has a showroom in front of the shop and they have some very nice stuff. In true Amish fashion, the showroom is plumbed with gas a illumination is by gas light. We were leaving one day and walked past the open shop doors and I did a double take.. Then a third take. The shop would have turned Norm Abrams green. All new power tools. I queried in town about the fully mechanized work shop and was told they don't own the equipment. It is leased. And that is fine.
Also dropped into an Amish furniture store in Eureka Springs Arkansas a few years ago where we eventually purchased a bed. I was admiring a large and very nicely done walnut plaque with carving of the Lord's Prayer surrounded by grapes. Then I looked at the one next to it and it was identical. I asked the salesperson how long the Amish had been doing laser etching. She smiled are responded "Well, they farm some of their stuff out to the Mennonites."
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RonB wrote:

I'm aware that such shops exist, however that is not the kind of shop I was postulating.
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Yes, I know. But I think there are fewer and fewer.
RonB
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Contrary to popular belief, the Amish do not reject all technology out of hand.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com /
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RonB wrote:

There is a major Amish community around Kidron, Ohio, home of Lehman Hardware, which is about 15-20 miles west of Canton, Ohio.
Can think of at least 6 Amish shops building and selling "Amish Oak" furniture.
Norm would drool looking at any of them.
No cars or trucks around, but plenty of horses.
Also several saw mills in the area.
Right after WWII, my dad sold lubricating oils and greases for the stationary engines used to develop belt power to drive the saws.
Lew
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I respect their beliefs and the fact that Amish seem to pass them on to a significant number of their children. A little technology creep is going to occur over time. If they are going to compete with mass- produced stuff then they need to be able to build it more efficiently. Hopefully they won't reach a point where they produce in quantities that sends their legendary quality out the door. At that point they will just have to break down and buy (lease) a building full of computers and let the accountants take over all phases of their craft.
Ron
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RonB wrote:

I understand that their rule is "you may try this new thing, but be prepared to give it up if it causes problems for the community", and that they make a distinction between business and home--what's OK for your furniture factory isn't OK for your garage workshop. A factory full of NC machines isn't going to damage the cohesion of their community in the same way that everyone parked in front of the boob tube will do, for example.
Something to consider about the Amish is that they all _choose_ to be Amish--they aren't even baptized until as adults they ask to be, and that decision comes _after_ they've spent some time exploring the outside world.
They aren't ignorant luddites, but they are careful about the effects that technology will have on their communities and they see the cohesion of the community as being of great importance.
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Right. The Amish have eschewed luxuries, not business. They'll often have a phone in the barn, or by the road, but not in the house. They even have web sites, but I doubt they surf the web much.

Absolutely. The Amish I've done business with are highly intelligent and genuinely nice people to do business with.
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We bought our dining and bedroom sets last year from one of them, in Navarre, OH. The salesman took me on a cook's tour of their shop.
They're not connected to the grid, but have a line of Cummins generators to power their shop. A few of the shops around had gas lighting; no electricity at all. Of course some shops in town sold Chamish stuff, too. Others were essentially consignment shops for the local craftsmen (and women). We also bought a quilt from one of the latter. They took special orders too, but we didn't think we'd be in the area for two years.
Dining room: http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=117
Bedroom: http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=118

Plenty. Watch the hills. Buggies like to hide on the other side.

The above does their own milling. They buy the logs in PA, IIRC.
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J. Clarke wrote:

I meant that I wouldn't sign it "Hand crafted by Steve Turner" if I'd hired others to do the work.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
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Perhaps the criteria should be what was guiding the tools during various stages of completion. (Autofeeders excepted if the tool requires them to function properly, like a planer.) If most of them were guided by hand, it was hand crafted.
Puckdropper
--
Craftsman carving machine for sale: Creates wonderful HandCrafted(tm)
work.

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Puckdropper wrote:

Once you've seen these mass-production factories making stuff that is about 95 percent machine handled, you have no problem using the term "hand crafted," even if you use power tools.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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Puckdropper wrote:

Or we could just put this whole hair-splitting thing to rest with very little loss of meaning by claiming the item was "Crafted by ..." instead of "Hand-crafted by ..."
--
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Steve Turner wrote:

We could take it over to rmmp and talk about all the "Kustom" drum makers out there, today, selling assembled parts.
Hmmm, think I'll start the IKEA Keastom Drum Keampany. :-)
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:26:15 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner

Yeah, sure.
And the word "craft" comes up in the buyer's mind and they think PUKEY DUCKS and the whole price structure comes tumbling down in a mass of flames.
-- "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Larry Jaques wrote:

I guess you just "can't please all of the people..."
Now I'm starting to lean towards "This item lovingly shat from the ass of ..."
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
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On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:29:39 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner

Splendid! Truth in advertising for most of us. <titter>
-- "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
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On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:29:06 -0800, Larry Jaques

blink
blink...blink
...sigh...
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