I just got a lesson today from a Shopfox dealer. I had checking around
to buy a 15 inch planer. I looked at Jet, Delta, Grizzly, Woodtek,
Shopfox and Yorkcraft on the internet. Not having catalogs I compared
all the specs and decided on a Grizzly GO453. I come to find out that
Grizzly and Shopfox are the same parent company and Grizzly is mail
order and ShopFox is sold through dealers. Shopfox gave me the name of
dealers to call in my area and the shop fox dealer I called did not
recommend the Shopfox since it not the quality as some of the other
equipment. He suggested Seco, which is another brand he sells and
looks the same with same specs and for more money. He said some of
their stuff is made in China with soft and poor castings and the Seco
is made in Taiwan was better quality. He commented on a Jet Vacuum that
a customer had the impeller broke and was not available from Jet
anymore for that unit since Jet changed overseas manufactures of that
unit and they were not interchangeable. I wonder if anyone else has
had this experience.
Should I give up on Shopfox or find a different dealer? What is an ISO
...of quality assurance.
FWIW, I just got the G0555 BS from grizzly and it is built in an iso9001
factory, and also has a big "made in taiwan" cast into the body.
It has a nice finish and my only complaint is a slight dip on the right
rear of the table... don't know if I'm going to raise an issue until
I've measured it (it's more than a feeler gauge... :-/)
If you are going to list "an" ISO standard, you might as well list all of
the standards. Specific packaging, shipping, billing, to name a few, are
required to be ISO certified. A quality standard is but one of many.
No, it doesn't. ISO is not a set of standards as the advertising
(advertising being the only real benefit of certification) would have you
believe. In a nutshell, you tell them what your company standards are and
they drop by from time to time and make sure that you have the documentation
to show that you are fallowing those standards. As long as it is on paper,
you have satisfied their inspectors. If your company standards say that
every third part is crap, as long as you have the documentation to show that
that is the case, you meet standards. They do not, nor are they capable of,
dictate any manufacturing process or procedure. We recently had an ISO audit
(yes, our shop is certified). At no time did the inspector come into the
shop area. They stayed in the office and looked over the documentation. Even
if they had come into the shop, they would not have any idea what they were
looking at. ISO certification has two benefits. (1) It is good advertising.
People don't know what it is but it sounds technical so they think it must
mean something. (2) It provides jobs pushing meaningless paper. Our largest
customer builds heavy jets. They do not require us or any of their suppliers
to have ISO certification. They know it is BS and would never rely on that
to ensure quality, they can't afford to be that lax.
Then either the inspectors are not all consistent or things have changed
drastically in the last 4 years. My sister in-law was the operations
manager for a high end electronics company that built job specific one of a
kind electrical tools and equipment for extreme environment conditions.
Their product did not exist until commissioned and they carried no inventory
of products ready to be sold. About 7 or 8 years ago they were having to
make specific operations changes to become ISO certified. They had
apparently been trying to be certified for several months prior to hiring my
Any way to make a long story short they had more than office visits.
More than office visits? They walked around the plant once, pretending that
they had a clue. The pile of paperwork required makes extremely expensive to
be ISO certified. In a one off shop, this would be hard to do and, unless
forced to do so, they woud not waste that much time and manpower. Paper
pushers love ISO. It gives them a reason to exist.
I agree with you, but I will say that some auditors are more thorough
than others. Some actually try to do a good job. But most are just like
you say, meaningless paper pushers.
It's really a conflict of interest. The company hires the auditor to do
the audit.. The auditor wants return business, so usually they only
find a couple very minor things, but pass the audit.. If an auditor
came and reamed out the company, chances are the company would hire a
new audit firm.
And I agree. ISO 9001 is meaningless. Definitely don't let it help sway
a tool buying decision.
Having participated in the process of getting a large manufacturing company
ISO 9001 certified, I wouldn't say it's meaningless, but it also doesn't
mean that the company makes high-quality products, either. All it means is
that the company has documented procedures and follows them. They could
make total crap products as long as the way they made the crappy products is
Under ISO 9000 the standards dictate the manufacturing process. This does
not mean it is of high quality, but it is going to be consistent in quality.
There are about 20 criteria addressed by the standards including design
control, purchasing procedures, specifications, process control, inspection,
handling, storage, job training, etc.
One company may set a tolerance on a machined part of .0001, another company
making a competitive part may set tolerance at .05. If proper procedure
is followed, you can be assured that what you buy will be in the
specifications, be that good or bad.
I once heard a story, and it might be apocryphal, of a quality spec.
given by (IBM?) to a japanese company they'd tapped for a supply of
(stepper?) motors. Although they had misread the intent of the spec.,
they very diligently included 1.5 defective motors per hundred, and
asked why IBM should want that.
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