Shop Wiring Suggestions

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Doug Miller wrote:

Ok, Doug, what if the joists are 16 or 24 OC? Wouldn't that be less than 4.5 ft? Thus the ability to run the NM above the joist so long as it was stapled or secured?

I could have bought 3-ga copper in a NM but my source couldn't get me 40ft at less than the 2-ga copper NM. They were out of the 3-ga and there new shippment would cost me more per foot than the 2 ga. Of course they had 3-ga in stock but not 40 continuous feet of it. So I opted to go with the 2 ga at just over a $1.00 foot less. Plenty large enough for a 100 amp sub.
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Dale Miller
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Doesn't matter *what* the joist spacing is. The Code does not permit stapling NM cable smaller than 6-2 or 8-3 to the bottom of joists. Period. There are no exceptions.

Securing the cable *more* often than the Code requires is not a problem. Securing it to the bottom of joists *is* a problem.

*Above* the joist? How do you do that in a basement? Above the joist is the subfloor. Did you mean below the joist? Can't do that. The Code absolutely prohibits stapling NM cable smaller than 6-2 or 8-3 to the bottom of joists.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

Here is the problem we are having...your thinking of a solid 2x floor joist. But the way I read OP as having truss style floor joists. So if that is what he has than you could wire above the bottom of the joist.
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There's nothing whatever in the original post that even suggests that might be the case. I think "the problem we are having" is that, as shown by some of your other comments, you were thinking he was wiring in an attic.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Dale Miller wrote:

Boy, I went back and re-read Howard Swope's original post. I think you're making quite a stretch to interpret it that way. When you hear hoofbeats, you should be thinking of horses, not zebras. Unless, of course, you're on the African plain.
One way to settle this aspect of the controversy. Howard? Do you have solid floor joists over your shop area or some sort of open truss system?
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Say What? wrote:

"...there is a bunch of NM cable that runs over some ceiling beams. It isn't secured and kind of weaves in and out of each other. ..."
I've not been participating in the thread but that was my reaction when I read that in the initial posting was the original wiring was just laying through the floor trusses overhead in the basement. Pretty common practice, ime...
Certainly while it isn't unequivocal, would seem to make more sense than that there could be a bunch of wire on top of solid joists in a basement where one would presume there's flooring on the top side of them.
I'm guessing (but admittedly it is a guess) that the "beams" is a misnomer for lack of knowledge/experience to automatically call them "trusses"...
IMO, ymmv, $0.02, etc., etc., etc., ...
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dpb wrote:

Surely it's a possibility, but so could it be that the "kind of weaves in and out of each other" be referring to thecables themselves with, perhaps, only one stapled in place. Who knows? Howard does! Howard! Come back here please<g>
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Say What? wrote:

After this, he'd be crazy to come back, ever...
I'd presume they probably do inter-twine and probably aren't stapled at all but just laying on the bottom chord and maybe going through a brace member now and then. Looks like h, but is very common in tract houses and doesn't violate code -- code doesn't address neatness itself much...
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Actually, it does: "Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner." [Article 110.12]
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wrote:

Thanks for the information (everyone has been very helpful). In regards to Square D, I don't remember the specifics of what I read, but it was a posting someplace. My recollection was only that this one gentlement had difficulties with Square D and was recommending moving away from their stuff. No one else seems to have responded in the negative, so I might go with it just to stay consistent with the current setup.

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Howard Swope wrote:
> Thanks for the information (everyone has been very helpful). In regards to > Square D, I don't remember the specifics of what I read, but it was a > posting someplace. My recollection was only that this one gentlement had > difficulties with Square D and was recommending moving away from their > stuff. No one else seems to have responded in the negative, so I might go > with it just to stay consistent with the current setup.
The only problem with Square Duck is they use bastard size c'bkrs.
If you use their panel, then you must use their c'bkrs.
Other manufacturers use a more common 1" & 1/2" c'bkrs that can often be used interchangeably.
Lew
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"Howard Swope" wrote in message

Listen to, and do, what Lew Hodgett suggests ... I followed his advice about six years ago and am glad I did, it's all you need.
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www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
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wrote:

the 12 ga will be fine.

Yes! Most likely, your shop will evolve. Putting in more 240v outlets makes sense so you can add a 240v DC, lathe or joiner. Outlets are not expensive. Put at least one 240v outlet on every wall.

It's OK. But it is better to install paneling or drywall--makes cleaning easier.

It is best to run wires through the middle of beams, rather than under and/or over.

electrician's advice on this one.

Not necessary.

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I haven't read all the other responses in detail, so this may already have been addressed:
Make sure the lights in your shop are on a dedicated circuit. You don't want any of your power equipment or anything (or anybody!) in the finished part of the basement tripping the circuit that controls the lights while you're in the shop.
Is the furnace for the house or just the shop? If it for the house, have you figured out how to protect it from workshop dust and fumes? If it's a forced air system you could end up spreading dust and fumes from the shop throughout the house.
I see 2 sump holes. Do you need to be concerned with huge swings in humidity when there's water in the sumps vs. dry times? (I don't have sumps, so I don't even know it that's a concern.)
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