Shop Walls

[Thomas Mitchell]

[Bill Pounds]

We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a lot of time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my attention to getting my shop in order.

The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done). It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your chance to talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood or OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not want drywall, not for a shop.

So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco so I don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for this stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck screws. Suggestions????

-- Bill Pounds

[SwampBug]

I e-mailed McFeelys about that very thing based on 3/4" plywood for my walls of std 2x4 studs, here is what the recomended

"I would recommend our #8 x 2" ProMaster Saw tooth screws. You will need 43 screws per sheet. Fasten every 6" on perimeter, every 12" in field."

I can't say as I agree about the spacing but the screws they recomended look good. Hope this helps.

[Bay Area Dave]

the deck screws will be perfect. if you get the ones with the square drive you won't have any "cam-out" when driving them in. and get yourself a Makita impact driver to reduce cam-out even more, with Phillips screws. (I am one-man evangelistic movement for impact drivers. ). BTW, don't go overboard on the length--you won't need 3" screws!

dave

Bill Pounds wrote:

[BRuce]

Hmmm, I don't know where you live or the insurance you have BUT in most cases if the wiring and the construction are not inspected the insurance is not obligated to pay. In many localities drywall is required in the garage, regardless of what you use the garage for.. that is not to say you can't put what you want over the drywall but the drywall has to be there.

might want to call the bldg inspector and ask before you go to all that work.

just my $0.02

BRuce

Bill Pounds wrote:

[Bill Pounds]

Thanks for the input. You are correct about the wiring inspection. As for drywall, the building was built new, and inspected, about 6 months ago. Studs are exposed. Drywall is only required for an attached garage, and only on the adjoining wall (Los Strangulous County).

Bill

[Bill Pounds]

Thanks for the spacing info. Do you think too many or too few?

I'll contact McFeely too.

Bill

[JackD]

If the garage is attached to the house then usually the building code specifies that you have some sort of fire separation - usually that means drywall and fire taping. Likewise, fastener spacing is governed by code. Check with your local building inspector.

If there is no code, and no earthquakes/strong winds then the screw spacing could probably be relaxed a bit from what mcfeely quoted..

-Jack

[Wolf Lahti]

Code requires a fire-resistant door between the house and an attached garage - which ignores completely the fact that the vast majority of fires start in the kitchen.

Maybe they're more interested in protecting the garage?

[SwampBug]

JackD said it plain, but out here in the swamps code means diddly, , ,I won't put them closer than a foot apart anywhere.

[JackD]

Actually, the stated purpose of the code is public safety. Likewise code inspections are not intended to keep customers from getting ripped off. The inspections are there to make sure that safety is not jeopardized by failure to construct according to the code. Contractors have hundreds of other ways to rip off customers which do not involve building code, though it is true that generally code compliance does cost money so it is always a temptation.

-Jackd

[JackD]

Generally fire codes are interested in limiting the spread of flames rather than in protecting certain areas of the house. By keeping fire out of the garage it reduces the possible severity of the fire. Would you want the kitchen fire to spread to the garage, igniting 20 gallons of gasoline, a garbage can of sawdust and a few gallons of watco danish oil? Anything which prevents the spread of fire between two areas is beneficial.

-Jack

[Kevin P. Fleming]

Actually, if you notice the code, the fire-resistant products are required on the _garage_ side of the walls, not the living space side. The intent is to keep fires in the garage from spreading into the house. I'd have to think that fires in garages are more common (and hotter, smokier, etc.) than fires in the living space. In many cases (including mine), the garage holds appliances that are involved in fires (furnaces, water heaters, gas clothes dryers, etc.) along with plenty of flammable materials.

[Tim V]

There was a fire reported on the news this morning. Overnight a fire in a garage that was put out by the fire department in OFallon, MO, reignited. They used thermal imaging to verify that it was out. The reignition burned down the house including the motorcycle and car in the garage plus the 2 cars in the driveway. The neighbor suffered a heart attack trying to hose down his roof so his house wouldn't catch. It did (minorly). Its under investigation, but the point is that a fire regardless of location has the potential to completely burn down the house, it contents, neighboring house, driveway contents, etc.

-- Tim

-------- See my page @

(seriously needs updating)

[Tim V]

Sorry, in that case, I would put in 4 screws along the 4' edges and 3 on the stud in between (one at each edge and one in the middle). Colored deck screws are available.

-- Tim

-------- See my page @

(seriously needs updating)

[Bill Pounds]

I should have known this would turn into a building code discussion. Don't they always? Mostly I was looking for screw suggestions that would not show conspicuously on the face of the siding. Something with a tan color would be nice, and I think I have seen deck screws with an anti-corrosion coating that was tan to match decking.

For those worried about the codes, this garage is detached from the house, was built to current codes, which did not require any finishing of interior walls. I will not be covering the ceiling where presumably following the nailing schedule would be most important. I will check the nailing schedule code, but choose not to follow it. I doubt if it will even exist for exterior siding in an interior application and one should not assume that it would be the same as drywall, nor that it would be the same as exterior sheathing.

Thanks for all the replies.

[JackD]

Well, the law is the law and your safety is involved. That usually trumps saving a few cents on screws.

They all hide when you paint anyway... If you aren't painting (and white paint really helps make the shop lighter) then get the tan deckmate screws at the borg. They are square drive and will hide pretty well. An alternative is to use un-colored screws and those little metal grommets. Gives a nice finished look and you can always find them.

Actually, the side walls need to resist shear. That is what the nailing is for. Keeps your walls from racking. The roof plays a part too, but nailing schedules are much much more than you need to keep the stuff from falling on your head.

Put in enough to keep it from warping. You could probably get away with every 18" Start with that and add more if necessary.

Jack

[Mark & Juanita]

The clue should have been when he indicated that the walls were currently un-finished. If he was allowed to occupy in that condition (as implied by the first part of his original post), then it should have been clear that code was not an issue.

... snip

If the walls weren't racking when unfinished (my shop has not had interior walls since it was built (probably 10+ years ago), racking has never been an issue.

I'm currently putting up insulation and walls so I can air condition the shop, I'm growing tired of 110+ degree working conditions, especially during the AZ monsoon season. I'm using white vinyl coated hardboard and drywall screws (yeah, the "flyspecks" of the screws looks a little wierd, but it's a shop and I don't have to paint after I'm done). Yours is the approach I'm using: enough screws to keep the sides from warping or bowing away from the wall -- the actual spacing will be dependent upon the material used, in my case, about 8 to 10 inches seems to work; for more rigid material, a greater spacing should work

[JackD]

Don't get many earthquakes in Arizona do you? There is often a fair amount of lateral shear. In California this is what the plywood is meant to transfer. Also why the code uses a "nailing schedule" instead of a screwing schedule for plywood. Nails have better shear resistance compared to things like drywall screws. Not that any of this is relevant to the problem at hand...

-Jack