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On 6/03/10 1:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

However, older boxes, too many handymen doing what they shouldn't etc., then I can start to see potential issues.
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On 6/3/10 12:50 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:

Not exclusive to closets, however. :-)
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On 6/03/10 2:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

at least partially eliminate the possibility of some flammable materials in the area.
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On 6/3/2010 1:50 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:

Imagine clothes draped over a fuse box where a fuse has been screwed in on top of a penny, with the overload that kept blowing the fuse uncorrected.

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On 6/03/10 3:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

I can't see a problem with a properly operated code compliant panel, not that I would store clothes, chemicals etc, near my panel anyway.
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On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 15:33:59 -0400, FrozenNorth

Nothing but possible air circulation to the panel for cooling.

Real handymen don't pull that kind of stunt. It's the homeowners who think they're handy who do, and they give us a bad name.

That's right. I hang a rake handle over my breaker box. ;)
-- It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin
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On 6/3/10 2:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

I don't see that as exclusive to a laundry room.
Does the NEC really cover every dumba$$ action by every brainless idiot on earth. It would have to be the size of an encyclopedia, wouldn't it?
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On 6/3/2010 2:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

LOL ... damn close.
Fact is, Mike ... it's a good thing. Residential electrical codes have saved many a catastrophe since being implemented.
If you think about how deadly electricity can be, and how close the business end is to you on a daily basis, be thankful it is as comprehensive as it tries to be.
There are enough crooks and fly-by-nights in this business that will leave your butt in danger in a heartbeat that you need every advantage you can garner from the getgo ... .. the average person does not have a clue.
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On 6/3/10 3:57 PM, Swingman wrote:

When I get a few minutes, I'll reply and tell the story of how I discovered that the previous owner of my home was trying to burn it down and collect the insurance.
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MIKE- wrote:

"Swingman" wrote:

from.
It was developed and is administered by the NFPA for the sole purpose of minimizing building fire potential.
It was never intended to protect utilization equipment, but rather the distribution system as it relates to fire prevention of structures.
Lew
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On 6/3/10 6:27 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

I'm fascinated by the history of all things construction, architectural, engineering, et al.
It's very interesting to hear these things.
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On 6/3/2010 12:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Don't recall the exact article but somewhere in the NEC for a number of years has been a phrase stating that overcurrent protection devices should not be located in the vicinity of easily flammable material ... or words to that effect.
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Yes, particularly with older-style coverless breaker boxes[*]. An overcurrent condition may cause sparking, which with clothing'**] nearby; fire.
[*] The push type with the on/off window, in particular; I forget the manufacturer.
[**] I suppose if all you wear is wool, then the fire hazard is less, since it is quite difficult to set wool afire. Fleece, on the other hand, "whoosh".
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wrote:

Push-Matic. Those are weird breakers -- little square things.
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A s**tload of combustible material if anything goes wrong.

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My buddy built a Post & Beam house a few years ago. He put in a sunken dining room, a few steps lower than the kitchen.
Going around the room, counter clockwise, one "wall" was the back of the cabinets under the kitchen counter, the next wall was a finished exterior wall, the next was floor to ceiling windows, and the last wall...well, there wasn't a last wall, it was open to the living room. A beautiful fan & light hung from the ceiling.
He had put receptacles in the "kitchen" wall and the finished exterior wall, but hadn't gotten around to boreing out the beam under the windows for any receptacles on that wall. His construction loan was running out and he had to get an electrical inspection before he could transition to a regular mortgage.
So he's standing in the kitchen with the inspector, blueprints on the counter, looking down over the dining room. The inspector says "That's the dining room. You need receptacles every six feet. There are no receptacles under the windows. What's up?" My buddy says, in all seriousness, "Oh, we changed the layout. That's a closet."
The inspector says "Well, you don't need receptacles every six feet in a closet. You're all set."
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On 6/3/2010 1:30 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Common sense quite often dictates what passes and what doesn't ... a recessed light in an 8' ceiling above a shower will fail in most locales, on a 9' ceiling above a shower and it will pass, but be prepared to prove it to each and every inspector.
Then again you can get away with a lot when an inspector can't read a set of plans, particularly an electrical plan ... almost always have to correct some inspectors when it comes to "dead" three way switches, particularly when they operate lights on different floors ... like with balcony and porch lights. :)
One of my favorites is municipalities that dictate where HVAC returns can be. Some Z&P boards don't want old folks standing on chairs to change an AC filter, so specify they can be a maximum of 48" above a floor or landing. Others are perfectly happy if you put it on a 10' ceiling ... although the owners may then finally appreciate just how farking stupid your architect is. :)
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re: "Common sense quite often dictates what passes and what doesn't"
I think in this case the inspector let it slide because my friend was meticulous in just about every detail of the build, from the 12V elevator he installed to bring his firewood up from the basement, to the "whole house fan" he installed in the basement to draw warm air from the top of the house, down around the double-walled center column so it was deposited into the sand mass under the slab, where it would then flow back up through the black plastic pipes than ran to the vents on the first floor.
I'm guessing that a missing receptacle or 2 in the dining room didn't bother the inspector too much.
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the following:

Z&P? Izzat the "Zoological and Proctological" sector of the Building Code Division? They bring out the animal in you and give you shit.

I just changed a filter for a lady. It was in the wall at the top of her 12' ceiling, a pretty fun ride from an 8' ladder.
Today I dug out some black bamboo for her (and brought home some rhizomes.) I have some muck buckets to plant them in to keep them from doing to me what the little leptomorphs did to her: running all over the place.
-- It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin
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wrote:

So the operative words here are "in front". As I understand you, the statement doesn't refer to what's inside the wall at all, huh? Thank you very much!
Bill
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