shop lighting?

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I have read through many posts on shop lighting but have not seemed to find an answer to a question I have.
I am in the process of building a 30x30 shop with 10' ceilings. I would like to know what others have done and found successful in how many lights have they put in. I plan on using fluorescent lights, 8' long. How far apart would you put the rows, how far from the walls? Would you run lights around the perimeter with rows down the middle?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
John
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"John Starr" wrote:

Use F96T12HO lamps, two(2) per fixture.
This is a two (2) lamp, 8 ft luminaire.
Plan on three (3) luminaires/row, 3 rows on 10 ft centers(ie: first row starts 5 ft away from wall).
Have fun.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Why use T12 instead of T8?
Chris
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"Chris Friesen" wrote:

Good question.
Guess it because that is what my lighting specialist would use for his lighting layouts for low bay (less than 15 ft) industrial lighting applications.
Lew
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Yep that's what we used to do, and thats what I have. Federal Energy regulation have made it so the old magnetic ballasts won't be available. Think in terms of electronic ballasts. The hottest technology is T8, T5/HO and LED. Cost wise look at T8. We are just finishing up a 3 Bldg complex by gutting the existing 4 lamp 2x4 troffers putting in a new 2'L reflector with a High Output T8 ballast and High Lumen T8 lamps. People are complaining its too bright and we cut the connected KW in half and the serving utility is paying 2/3's of the cost. Sixteen month payback. For a home shop look at the T8's good light higher CRI and will be current technology for awhile.
Mike M
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:48:23 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

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One other thought if dollars are tight and you have a lot of retrofits in your area, we usually have trailers of old lighting fixtures sitting around and we don't bother with security. Lot of times the local scroungers save us the trouble of parting them out for recycling. The copper fixture wire is gone the first night.
Mike M
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:56:08 -0700, Mike M

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John Starr wrote:

I recently installed lighting in my 28'X44' shop. I used 24-4' T8 fixtures from Home Depot .. .. it looks like Chernobyl when they're all on. Exactly what I had hoped for. To mount them, I first installed a grid of suspended tracks made of 2.25" wide & 8' long strips of mdf fastened to the ceiling with .375 spacers in between. I can move the light wherever I need them, running them either lengthwise or crossways, and just plug them into the nearest recepticle. I installed 36 duplex recepticles in the ceiling, hooked into two circuits, with each group of six controlled by one switch. A little overkill for sure, but it sure is handy at times to be able to add/move/change the configuration without ever having to pull another wire !! !! !!
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There is no such thing as to much light in a workshop...
Dave N
<<<__ Bob __>>> wrote:

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John,
I ran your room through my lighting software program. The reflectance values were standard 80-50-20 which equates to white ceiling, tan - light painted walls and concrete floor. Mounted at 10'
To achieve the following use - 4' - T8 strip fixtures 30 average foot candles you'll need 6 at 4' - 2 rows of 3 40 average foot candles you'll need 9 at 4' - 3 rows of 3 50 average foot candles you'll need 12 at 4' - 4 rows of 3
I'd go with 841 lamps. They cost a bit more but they like all fluorescent lamps will last as follows
30,000 hours with 12 hour starts and 24,000 hours with 3 hour starts.
The 8 stands for 80+ CRI - Color rendering - The higher the color rendering the more a color looks like it should. Sunlight and an incandescent lamp have a CRI of 100. They encompass all the spectrum of light.
A higher CRI lamp will in a sense contain more of the light 'spectrum' per se'.
The X41 stands for 4100 Kelvin. An incandescent lamp is about 2700K. The higher the Kelvin the whiter and actually bluer it looks. For the older generation. A higher Kelvin is better due to visual acuity and the aging of eyes. Also the higher the Kelvin, studies have shown the lower amount of light is needed. If your wondering what the heck does 30 foot candles look like. If you work in an office its engineered at 30Fc, A hallway is at 10Fc. A parking garage is 5Fc. A Gym is 30Fc.
If you'd like, Send me an Email and I'll send over the lighting layouts for you.
snipped-for-privacy@mchsi.com
Bob
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Bob
Where does one get a "lighting software program"?
Bob AZ
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"Bob AZ" wrote:

You can always stay with the old grade school math program.
Assume lumen depreciation over life of lamp = 0.9 Dirt Depreciation =0.6-0.9 based on conditions Luminaire efficiency (Includes an up light allowance)= 0.6
Maintained Lumens = (Initial Lumens)(0.9)(0.8)(0.6) = 0.432)(Initial lumens), for medium dirt conditions.
(1 Lumen)/(1 square foot) = 1 foot candle.
The above are based on a florescent lamp source, and a maintained light level 36" above the floor.
Time for a beer.
Lew
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Bob, Lithonia Lighting (Conyers, GA - outside Atlanta) has a pretty decent program - 'Visual' that comes in a 'basic' and a 'professional' version. The 'basic' version is free and will easily do things like a shop. The 'professional' version is far more versatile and really not that expensive ($125 when I got mine, but haven't checked recently - doubt it would be much more).
http://www.visuallightingsoftware.com /
Try out the 'Basic' version -- I think you'll be satisfied.
-- john (Architect)
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I suggest having plenty of lights and wire them with independent switches. This will allow you to get as much light as you need where you need it when you need it, but will allow you to shut off those you don't.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
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Oye! I have 15 fixtures in my garage. I can't imagine having 15 switched ganged on the wall just to gain independent control of each light. I have mine switched by bay, so that each bay can be turned on or off. Two of the bays have 6 fixtures and the third has 3.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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I covered a 21'x24' area with 9 four foot fluorescent fixtures. I like the four footers because they give less hum. I installed chain pulls on all of the lights and a single switch at the door. My wife uses about one third of the are for ceramics and the rest is for my metal working machinery. Basically, we enter the room, turn on the switch and whichever 'chains' were left on light up. Simply pull the chain(s) on whatever area you are going to work and turn off the rest. Upon leaving we just turn off the main switch at the door. This way we save energy by not having all the lights on, or, not having a 'group' of lights on when we only need one. BTW, I have 14' ceilings and hung the lights so they are at approximately 8 feet above the floor.
Ivan Vegvary
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John
Lots of nice suggestions here already.
First off stick with 48" flourescents. 8' are not widely available for a good reason. Not popular and difficult to work with. Don't get cheap fixures. They cost more. If you are ambitious feed each fixture with two circuits/switches. 4 bulb fixtures will have two ballasts so you can feed each ballast and the two bulbs with each circuit. Where I used to work the lighting circuits/switches/wiring will be 40 years old next year. No switch, wiring or fixture failures yet. The switches were $3.00 or more that many years ago. The switches were operate many times a day. We did bulb changes yearly.
This way you can change the lighting intensity without going the dimmer route. 4 bulb fixtures will have two ballasts so you can feed one allast and two bulbs seperately.
Ther is some information on the net with recomended lighting layouts. If you are ambitious go look at some commercial buildings.
Don't skimp on wire size. #12 all the way. Get better more expensive switches. They last longer and fail less often. Specification grade. Stay away from the cheap ones.
Put in a spare circuit from the panel feeding the shop. Use this as an emergency light in case any of your machinery/tools drop out your main feed whatever it is. Also have an outlet on this circuit. This way you can shut everything off and still have a light and receptacle to make any changes and not be in the dark.
Enjoy Bob AZ
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Bob AZ wrote:

Why would you ever use #12 wiring for lighting?
#14 allows for roughly 40 4-ft T12 bulbs, or 45 T8 bulbs. That seems excessive for a single circuit.
Chris
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:06:02 -0600, Chris Friesen

If the circuit is fused (or circuit breaker) is for 20 amps #12 wire is required by code.
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
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Markem wrote:

Well sure...if it's a multipurpose circuit. "Bob AZ"'s post sounded like it was recommending #12 even for dedicated lighting circuits.
Chris
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Somebody wrote:

AMEN!
Standardization.
#14 belongs in other people's place, not mine.
The amount of work involved in a wiring job makes trying to use #14 a waste of time compared to #12.
Lew
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