Shop heat

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We've been here before. Checked the wiring and turned my electric furnace on and got a modest "hummmmmmmmmmm" for my efforts.
No big deal, I guess, as I had money in the circuit breaker and cable, but not in the furnace. Which is why I don't wish to add any more cash to that cow.
I've been looking at the radiant heaters Lee Valley has: has anyone here tried that radiant heat concept recently enough to recall whether or not it works well?
If it seems to, I'll stick one of those up in each corner of the shop and get on with it. I'm not up for rerouting ducting for a furnace, among other fun chores, so ceiling mount radiant heat might be the answer.
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Charlie Self wrote:

Portable radiant heaters only warm surfaces, so air temp and stock will remain cold. Being tall, I don't do well with ceiling mounted RH, but YMMV.
Dave
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David said:

Well, the radiant heat that warms surfaces will eventually radiate into the air FROM those surfaces, but... I know what you're saying.
Heck, I'm still using a portable Kerosene heater - it'll roast your butt off in a little while. But my DC is outside, and I DO NOT paint/lacquer/varnish/clean brushes with MS inside the garage. It worked pretty well for a few years, but now that kerosene is up to $3.50 a gallon, I'm not so sure...
And it does smell when you shut it down.
(And for cripes sake, no threads on carbon monoxide poisoning, ventilation, etc....)
Greg G.
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Charlie Self wrote:

Found that this electric heater: Dayton G73 (actually manufactured by Marley Products as their UH5xx series) works quite well. Have a 30amp circuit available? This is plenty for a 13'x24' well-insulated shop in the Chicago area.
As the David mentions, radiant isn't likely to do the job you want unless you're actually talking about convection heat units mounted (ala electric baseboard heat).
Cleaning the baseboard units would be a pain, as would the wall space that would be wasted.
OTOH, I do have the draft from the forced-air from the Dayton stirring things up. Hopefully that will be a minor downside since I have now have a dust collector AND air filtration system in the shop.
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On Sat 05 Nov 2005 06:35:03p, Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2

Glad to hear that. I'm in WI not far from Chicago, with a 20x20 uninsulated, unattached garashop that I'm planning to weatherize this winter. I bought a Farenheat 240V which looks like it's pretty much the same thing as the Dayton and got it installed yesterday. When the doors were closed it did a really good job for that 45 degree rainy/windy day. It went from damp and chilly to nice and comfortable in about twenty minutes. Near as I can figure, that unit costs me about fifty cents an hour to run.
I know I won't be able to keep the shop above freezing all winter but at least it'll be comfortable while I insulate, put up slatwall, cover the rafters, and all that stuff I probably should have done this summer but made sawdust instead. :-)
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Dan wrote:

My shop is a dedicated 13x24 area in a detached 36x24 garage. Fully insulated, thermopane windows in the shop area, etc. Concrete slab.
Installed the Dayton in February and set it to keep the shop between 50-55 degrees. If I'm going to work out there I go in when I get home from the office and crank it. By the time I can change into work clothes, I can work in shirtsleeves even if the temperature is below freezing.
As for the cost? I used to use a Redi-heater and Kero-Sun heater when I worked out there. Priced K-1 lately?<g> No smell, and I've not yet had a heart attack looking at the electrical costs since we're total electric out here anyway.
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Dan wrote:

The orange borg is running what now appears to be an annual insulation special. Buy $250 worth of insulation, get a $75 gift card. Time to insulate!
-John in bloody cold NH
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hello,
BTW, in some states like Idaho, you get tax breaks for insulating previously uninsolated structures...
cyrille

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wrote in

Heh. In certain parts of mine, you have to buy a permit, submit a rather complicated form documenting its thermal retention properties, use an approved heat source, and go through two inspections.
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The LV radiant heaters will not heat a shop, well maybe if you had 20 they might, but basically they should be considered "personal heaters".
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...

...
I've used one for the last couple of years in my third bay shop here in Colorado. It's good for local heat and comfort if you are working in a small area (say doing joinery or marquetry at your workbench).
It doesn't put out enough heat to heat the shop area; over the period of an hour or so it may shift the overall temp by a couple of degrees at most.
Mine was very inexpensive from the local home improvement store (Sutherlands), and is the exact same brand and model that Lee Valley carries for a few dollars more.
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Nate Perkins wrote:

Shoot. I guess I mess with a more costly form of heat. It might even pay to see if I can replace the fan motor on this old furnace, which is a royal pain in the tail.
Thanks. This place is wonderful for arcane info about a whole lot of semi-woodworking related things.
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Charlie Self said:
<snipped>

It shouldn't be that hard to DO, unless it's concealed, too high, etc. But the leg work to find the motor...
What's wrong with it? Are the windings burnt, or (much more common) are the bearings just stuck? Insert repair sequence here...

And like a nube, I told my tale of kerosene (and carbon monoxide), but forgot about the new weather stripping and such I put on the garage/shop this summer. Went to light it tonight and it struck me...
Now _I've_ got to find an alternate form of heat.
For a garage. With a non-insulted floor. And two wood garage doors.
Ugghh...
Greg G.
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Greg G. (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| Now _I've_ got to find an alternate form of heat. | | For a garage. With a non-insulted floor. And two wood garage doors.
Does the garage have a south-facing wall?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Morris Dovey said:

WAY ahead of you - but no.
My fun-time reading in 1980 consisted of: Under Ground, Earth Bermed, and Solar Efficient Homes by some dorks at MIT. I was preparing for this even then... The book was subsequently burned - and no, not by a solar heating experiment gone awry - I believe it was a conspiracy by the oil plutocracy, but that's another story...
It must have been a successful conspiracy, however, because I now find myself chained to a fuel-screw home.
Greg G.
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Greg G. wrote:

It may only be the capacitor. My knees are acting up, so I hate climbing the pull-down to check the thing out again, but I guess tomorrow evening, when it cools down, is a good time. I've got to drop a jointer at a freight company tomorrow a.m. early, get that off my back (3 to go!). There may be some fun with the capacitor, as the furnace is at least 20 years old. Worked when I got it 5 years ago. With the gear I have now, the best way to check the capacitor is to get the numbers, buy a new one and try it. I did locate my small multi-meter a couple days ago, right on the beam running down the center of the attic, next to the furnace.
Anyway, what I get now is a humming noise, which tends to remind me of a motor with a bad capacitor, but it's been a lot of years since I fiddled with them, so what do I know. No motor shop here, but maybe one in Roanoke or L'burg. I do have a nearly new motor out of an old oil furnace. Wonder if that will fit?
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Charlie Self wrote:

Damn, Charlie, you ARE THE MAN! A dedicated multi-meter, just for your furnace! Wow!<g>

Possible that the problem is the centrifugal starting switch. I have an intermittent problem with one on a heavy-duty paper shredder at the office. In my case, I was able to rule out the capacitor (after using your method, of course<g>) by turning the motor by hand a half turn and then applying power to it. It turned right over. Give your squirrel cage or fan a spin and then apply power and see what happens.
A shot of electrical contact cleaner and/or blast of compressed air aimed at the switch may be all you need. If that gets it going again fine. If it only works to be a temporary cure at least you know you're not looking at a great expense. A motor repair shop should be able to take care of relatively cheaply. Of course you still get to work on it up in that attic. Sucks to be you<g>
Good Luck.
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You did not say if the heaters came on or not. Just that the fan no start. A lot of times there is a sail switch in the duct work for safety. If this switch does not move and close the heaters cannot come on. Motor start is one thing but how about the heater elements. Also there may be an overload switch near the heaters. If it gets to hot the heaters will shut down. It is about the size of a half dollar. ( Banks might still have a couple on hand if you need a reminder. ) As for the capacitor try starting the furnace, then shut off the breaker or disconnect. Then remove the wires from the capacitor , if there is a resistor between the terminals cut the thing off. then short across the terminals with a screwdriver,.make sure it is insulated drive not one with an old broken wooden handle . If it snaps the cap is good . The resistor was only there to bleed off the cap when power was off so don't really have to worry about replacing. Run capacitors are oval with low micro-fared ( 5 mfd at maybe 300volts). Start caps are round and high like 80 or so. Also check the relay that pulls in the power to the motor. Lot of mfg had a lot of different ways for safety. so follow the wiring if you can. After you get your hands out of the furnace THEN go turn the breaker on.
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Most fan motors don't use capacitors, but they do need oiling, at least the 20+ year old types.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

Charlie, I don't know what size your shop is, but a 1500 watt electric heater warms my little shop from freezing to 60 in a couple of hours. Then I turn it down to where it runs only occasionally to maintain the heat. If the weather is really cold, I leave it run all night sitting on the cast iron saw table for safety.
My shop is only 150 square feet, so you might need more than one, but they're cheap. At least it would be an interim solution.
--
It's turtles, all the way down.

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