Shipping Costs

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While I agree with this, although i'd probably just ignore the post;

I disagree with this. Many news spools have retention policies based on space, rather than time, and additional posts will cause older posts to be removed _from that server_. Sure, they'll (unless X-No-Archive) be available via Google, but from the perspective of the news reader application, they've "dropped off".
scott
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Actually, that *is* how usenet works. NNTP servers have limited storage space, and as new messages come in, old ones are deleted. On particularly busy groups, small servers end up keeping messages for less than a day, or even just a few hours.
So think of it this way - every new message that shows up, causes one old message to disappear from the server. Forever. Did you read it? No? Well, you'll have to find a server with a bigger disk which may still have it (like google groups, for example).
Note that this is why many servers refuse to carry the *.binary groups - they eat up disk space much faster than text-only groups, so one binary post could cause hundreds of text posts to disappear.
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Actually, that does not fit with what I know from my own accounts. The providers I use both have stated retention periods, i.e., 30days for text and 14 days for binary - or whatever they decide. I know of a provided that offers 1200days retention on text. Of course there might be providers that run their business different but I believe the majors all have stated retention times and when the traffic goes up they respond by adding new capacity - not by dropping messages.
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writes:

You need to find a new provider.
--

-Mike-
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DJ Delorie wrote:

If someone's losing rec.* posts in hours nowadays, they need a new news service. <G>
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Done. The change will be effective Saturday.
Thanks, Al Gore
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Hey look - I got Al Gore's signature!
Eat your heart out, the rest of you guys.
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-Mike-
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HA HA! Good one!
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No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - snipped-for-privacy@charm.net
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:36:29 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (James Silcott) wrote:

Considering that most areas don't have serious woodworking-oriented tool stores and older style tools & certain hardware can only be got from online transactions or mail order, this is on-topic.
What did you want? Yet another thread on the difference between Grizzly, Jet and Delta or how to cut a dado slot? Shop talk is where it's at, IMO. Making things out of wood just really isn't so terribly complicated that each operation needs to be gone over a thousand times in minute detail each week so we don't all forget.
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Stephen M wrote:

But to take the semantics to the limit, the post to which you responded and (I was questioning your response to) specifically was about business-business transactions wherein the "handling" or "transaction" fee _was_ broken out from a separate line item for shipping which you then claimed was somehow different...
I don't disagree that it's nice when the shipping charges are identified as the actual sellers' cost, but not all billing software is set up that way and , in the end, the decision is controlled by what the particular business' systems and accounting practices dictate.
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When you start getting into truck freight and such, prices can vary all over the map.
At freight101.com, they will list dozens of carriers that could haul your freight. I have seen the price for a shipment range from $75 up to $300 or $400.
Brian Elfert
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If this makes you feel better, How about you go and get it your self or they sell you the part for $10 and ship it for free.
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Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:
There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to shipping There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned to shipping There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta quality (which in this case is true) There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of the part
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No reason why there should be. To illustrate with extreme examples, a $10K diamond could be shipped coast-to-coast in a padded mailer or small box for less than a dollar via first-class mail -- but a dollar's worth of scrap steel might cost twenty bucks to ship from one side of town to the other. Shipping cost is a function of weight, bulk, and difficulty in packaging, none of which have any particular relationship to the value of the item being shipped.

I doubt that's actually the case. Do you seriously mean that the costs to ship a 1/2-ounce gasket and a ten-pound motor are similar?

?? What does the quality of the parts have to do with the cost of shipping? I confess I'm at a loss to understand why you think there should be any relationship here.

It's probably less expensive for Delta to have a contract with a single shipper, and ship everything that way.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

Sure there is. It is shipping and "handling". Delta lost money on this sale. It takes almost as much "handling" to process, pick, pack, and load this part on a $3.00 sale as it does to on the $300.00 dollar sale. However, there is not enough margin money in the $3.00 sale to cover the labor and overhead to have it on the shelf and get it to you.

(parts master file) has weights for every item that is picked and will match it to the carriers contract. But your still going to get to pay for the handling. However, on the 150# part it may look like a bargain.

Irrelevant and subjective.

I can assure you, that if it cost the company less money to ship by a different method, i.e. to have a less costly, dual method with tracking and reliability available, they would do so, reducing your cost but at the same time increasing their profit (or in this case limiting the loss on the sale).
Frank
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I'm going to guess here that Delta shipped the part via UPS. If so, UPS doesn't care about the value of the part (if it's under $100), the quality of the part, the nature of the part, or the weight except in 1 pound increments.
A 1 oz. package costs just as much to ship as a 1 lb. package. If the item in the box is worth $.30 or $100, UPS does not care. The charge is based on your zip code, the shipper's zip code, and the weight in whole pounds rounded up - that's it. Over $100, they add cost for insurance. Plus, they charge you a weekly fee just for showing up and picking up your packages.
To your point of shipping method - a company the size of Delta is not going to pick and choose between shipping methods based on what is being shipped. They will have a contract carrier and they will likely use them for all parcels. It would cost them even more in labor costs for their shipping department to evaluate the different methods and pick the cheapest one for the purpose, fill out the necessary paperwork, etc. They can't just drop it in an envelope and put a stamp on it - they probably don't even have access to stamps or envelopes.
Even if they used the USPS, it would be more likely that they would use the pre-paid Priority Mail boxes, which I think are $4.95 regardless of weight.
I guess people who don't do this every day don't realize that it's just as much of a PITA to ship a tiny little item as it is to ship a big one. Sometimes more.
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warbler wrote:

Others have competently addressed the realities of the shipping/handling charges as being essentially the product of having to deal with large volumes negates "special-casing". That some judicious application of business psychology might be able to improve perception is undoubtedly also true.
But I'm still trying to figure out what 1-oz part shut your jointer down???
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Finding the keyboard operational warbler entered:

Boy there is a lot of good stuff here frpm both sides here. I just want to add my 2 cents here. As a small business owner, I get 10, 12 deliveries a week from UPS, Fedex, DHL and USPS. All of them have their good points and bad. I can't say that one of them beat up on the boxes more then the other. I do have on supplier that couldn't ship a box in a box without screwing up. The only reason I deal with them is that they replace damaged items quickly and for free. Shipping charges are a royal 15 carat pain in the ass. If I build it into the price, then my product is too expensive. If I charge the instore price plus the cost of the time for someone to pull, pack and lable, then add the actual postage or other fees then I get complaints about $5 shipping on a $12 product. In the case of $8 on a $3 part. Well there could be a number of reasons. Delta may find that $8 averages out over all the part orders. The $3 part may not be a part that Delta has found necessary to stock as a part. So someone has to get the part from manufacturing. Hopefully, they are in the same building or at least the same state. The third and possibly the closest to the truth is, $8 covers their fixed shipping costs. Salaries + SS/WCI/medical, space, light, heat, packing materiels, invoicing, billing. Anyway, I am sure that Delta or any other company is not getting rich on this kind of thing. It does suck if you are paying a lot for a little but there doesn't seem to way around it. Bob
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The Other Funk wrote:

BTW, Lee Valley, who a lot of people hold up as the "gold standard" in many categories, charges $7.50 for shipping a $3 part. If you order $21 of merchanise, then you pay $9.50 in shipping.
Mark
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wrote:

This great if the seller has other stuff you could add to your order to deal with the shipping cost problem. If I order something from Amazon, it's easy to add something else to bring my order up. If I'm getting a part from Delta, Bosch, etc., that's not so easy.
Lots of good info in this thread. I intend to keep it mind the next time I need a part for a tool. And try to get USPS shipping. ;)
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