Shear strength of screws

[Father Haskell]

When in doubt, put in another screw for redundancy. If they're going to fail, in all likelihood, they're going to fail one screw at a time.

[clare]

Let's just put it this way. It's easier to make a messy looking leakproof job in Pex than it is in copper. And it's a lot easier to make a neat looking job with copper - particularly if you know what you are doing with the copper. It was a lot easier with pB solder too.

[clare]

Correct - you give the spec sheet of the product you would like to use to the inspector and tell him you want to use these - does he have any problems allowing them. It's a nobrainer to use ONE device that installs in a minute or two and costs a buck instead of a complex strap arrangement that takes 5 minutes or more to install, in 13 pieces, and costs two bucks, if you can get the inspector's permission. The inspector may want to see a sample of an installation that he can whack at with a crow-bar or hammer to satisfy HIMSELF that it is an acceptable solution.

Had a friend designed a very thermally efficient house, using modular insulated panels, built on-site, instead of a traditional studded wall. The inspector said "prove to me this panel is as strong as or stronger than the traditional wall and I'll allow it".

When he drove his 3/4 ton 4X4 up a ramp consisting of a wall panel, the inspector was duly impressed and gave him the go-ahead.

[clare]

I sure hope you get rid of the rubber trap when you do the final install. I use sharkbites on copper in locations where soldering would be difficult/dangerous/impossible or where I can see having to disconnect them sometime in the possibly forseable future. I wouldn't use them as standard practice in place of a soldered joint on copper, or a clamped joint on PEX.

[clare]

Unless even 2 is not strong enough, where both can, and often do, fail virtually at the same time. Ore one will fail, without being noticed, and a significant time later the second fails catastrophically.

Better to use overkill on one than use 2 too small fasteners.

Better yet, overkill on more than one.

[-MIKE-]

Is there a reason for this, other than looks? I was planning on replacing it, but honestly, I can't think of easier access for clean-out.

Again, why? Do they have a track record of leaking? I haven't been using sharkbites for standard, permanent connections, simply because crimps are so cheap and easy. But the sharkbite valves are only about 20% more than regular valves and are high quality ball valves.

[Leon]

I prefer the advantages of how PEX is usually installed over the looks of copper how copper is typically installed.

In south Texas we ocassionally get a harsh winter. Pipes freeze, copper pipes seem to be the first to burst.

PEX expands and is less likely to break and in my case comes with a 10 year warranty. Additionally PEX is normally run through a mainfold. The previous winter I was able to shut off water to the out side hose bibs from the manifold and open the bibs to drain the water before the freeze. I had running water for all of the i other nterior faucets.

[Dave]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:22:27 -0500, Leon

Is there any need to drain PEX? (Despite it's resistance to freezing)

[Swingman]

Leon, Bubba ... you mean you haven't yet figured out that we live in a shallow thinking culture that prizes "looks" over increased functionality and efficiency ... in a farking dark ATTIC?

AAMOF, unless someone spends a lot of their warm fuzzy navel gazing time in the attic, who gives a flying f*ck what a PEX homerun installation looks like as long as it's effective, equally functional, less expensive, and with more options for the convenience of zone plumbing, at less cost?

That said, I've yet to see one of my plumbing contractors do the kind of work with PEX I have seen decried here ... quality supervision and _ethical contractors_ must obviously be in damned short supply elsewhere, eh?

[Swingman]

The difference between copper, and other rigid piping/cpcv, and PEX is in the amount of expansion and contraction it will allow with thermal changes.

PEX has a much higher expansion coefficient and is thus more resistant to bursting when frozen, although that is not an infinite ability ... particularly with regard to the fitting points and connections.

Although there is much more room for error with regard to draining, the weakest points would be at fittings and connections, which basically means prudence dictates treating it as if it would be advisable to drain if the thermal conditions indicate.

[Leon]

If you drain it you don't have to wait as long for the ice to melt before you can use the outside hose bib again.

[Leon]

Hell I was thinking inside closed WALLS.

For some one that does not like to look at a PEX installation there must be some kind of filtering eye wear to cancel out the presence and appearance of the wiring!

Yeah, I was really kinda impressed seeing the red and blue, sorry, PEX pipes running every where.

[clare]

There are good traps that are as easy to clean out, and won't deteriorate into mush in 5 years. I used one ONCE. Never again. The interior went first - everything stuck to it, so the drain was ALWAYS slow. I put in a self clearing trap. It has a "vane" for lack of a better description that you turn with a knob and the trap is cleared of whatever has deposited in it. Made of clear Lexan, if I remember correctly.

Not that I'm aware of, or I wouldn't use them at all, particularly in difficult applications. I just find them expensive, clunky, and complex for normal use. Heck, I can solder, so why would I use them for normal joints????

Perhaps in PEX I might use them - if I were to use PEX.

[clare]

Up here we occaisionally do NOT get harsh winters, and I've never had one of my copper pipes burst - but then I don't allow them to freeze either.

I can do that in my copper plumbed house too, with no manifold. However, I've chosen to use hydrants instead (frost-proof hose bibs)

[clare]

Water pipes in the ATTIC?? Now that's a bass ackwards way of doing things - at least it would be up here. Water pipes in the attic WOULD be likely to freeze. We don't heat our attics - at least not intentionally.

[clare]

Around here the plumbing is in the BASEMENT. I know much of the USA hasn't got a clue what a basement is. Crawl-space or cellar, perhaps - but not an actual useable basement.

[Leon]

But should you develop a leak at any fixture or pipe leading to that fixture can you isolate that feed and leave every thing else on?

[Swingman]

It's standard procedure in almost all single story structures in the Southern and Western states of the US, particularly in what is known as "Hot Humid Climates", typically areas like the Gulf Coast where basements are mostly out of the question due water tables, and 99.9% of residential foundations are slab on grade.

That said, unvented attics, where all plumbing and HVAC duct work are within the thermal envelope, is gaining some traction, although relatively expensive and does have it's own drawbacks.

Besides, how else would plumbers, sheetrockers and painter's make it through a harsh winter without some burst pipe work?? ;)

[Swingman]

And why do you suppose that is?

[Leon]

Yeah, considering relatively no one has a basement in the south, where else would you run the plumbing? ;~)