Shear strength of screws

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On 4/13/2012 7:48 AM, Dave wrote:

The difference between copper, and other rigid piping/cpcv, and PEX is in the amount of expansion and contraction it will allow with thermal changes.
PEX has a much higher expansion coefficient and is thus more resistant to bursting when frozen, although that is not an infinite ability ... particularly with regard to the fitting points and connections.
Although there is much more room for error with regard to draining, the weakest points would be at fittings and connections, which basically means prudence dictates treating it as if it would be advisable to drain if the thermal conditions indicate.
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On 4/13/2012 7:48 AM, Dave wrote:

If you drain it you don't have to wait as long for the ice to melt before you can use the outside hose bib again.
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On 4/13/2012 7:22 AM, Leon wrote:

Leon, Bubba ... you mean you haven't yet figured out that we live in a shallow thinking culture that prizes "looks" over increased functionality and efficiency ... in a farking dark ATTIC?
AAMOF, unless someone spends a lot of their warm fuzzy navel gazing time in the attic, who gives a flying fuck what a PEX homerun installation looks like as long as it's effective, equally functional, less expensive, and with more options for the convenience of zone plumbing, at less cost?
That said, I've yet to see one of my plumbing contractors do the kind of work with PEX I have seen decried here ... quality supervision and _ethical contractors_ must obviously be in damned short supply elsewhere, eh?
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On 4/13/2012 7:58 AM, Swingman wrote:

Hell I was thinking inside closed WALLS.

For some one that does not like to look at a PEX installation there must be some kind of filtering eye wear to cancel out the presence and appearance of the wiring!

Yeah, I was really kinda impressed seeing the red and blue, sorry, PEX pipes running every where.
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wrote:

Around here the plumbing is in the BASEMENT. I know much of the USA hasn't got a clue what a basement is. Crawl-space or cellar, perhaps - but not an actual useable basement.

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On 4/13/2012 1:26 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

And why do you suppose that is?
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building permit for in Canada???
Why anyone would want to build in New Orleans totally escapes me. And half of Florida you'd be better off with a houseboat.
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Water pipes in the ATTIC?? Now that's a bass ackwards way of doing things - at least it would be up here. Water pipes in the attic WOULD be likely to freeze. We don't heat our attics - at least not intentionally.

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On 4/13/2012 1:22 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

It's standard procedure in almost all single story structures in the Southern and Western states of the US, particularly in what is known as "Hot Humid Climates", typically areas like the Gulf Coast where basements are mostly out of the question due water tables, and 99.9% of residential foundations are slab on grade.
That said, unvented attics, where all plumbing and HVAC duct work are within the thermal envelope, is gaining some traction, although relatively expensive and does have it's own drawbacks.
Besides, how else would plumbers, sheetrockers and painter's make it through a harsh winter without some burst pipe work?? ;)
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certainly does not stop during the winter. Some of the real wusses head south for winter holidays.
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On 4/13/2012 1:22 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Yeah, considering relatively no one has a basement in the south, where else would you run the plumbing? ;~)
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wrote:

Up here we occaisionally do NOT get harsh winters, and I've never had one of my copper pipes burst - but then I don't allow them to freeze either.

I can do that in my copper plumbed house too, with no manifold. However, I've chosen to use hydrants instead (frost-proof hose bibs)
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On 4/13/2012 1:20 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

But should you develop a leak at any fixture or pipe leading to that fixture can you isolate that feed and leave every thing else on?
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wrote:

mass, and I can shut off any outlet separately to replace or service the faucet or valve. All service valves have been replaced with ball valves, so I don't run into seized shutoff valves.
So I guess the short answer is yes.
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On 4/13/2012 8:21 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I asked , can you isolate a fixture should that fixture "or the pipe leading to that fixture", develop a leak. Most any one can do what you just described. I can turn off the water at the fixture or the manifold to isolate that entire run. I basically have a supply manifold with 28 separate valves and a valve at the end of each of those runs.
BTY simply using a water softener helps greatly in preventing a valve from seizing.
But my new home PEX plumbing came with all ball valves. In my older home the valve that I shut off the most were the water closet/toilet valves. They were difficult to turn after 5~10 years but about 8 years ago we installed a water softener and the next time I turned off any of the supply valves any where in the house they turned like they were brand new. This did not happen immediately but eventually all of the ones that I worked on operated freely.
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Hard water causes all sorts of problems. Early on, I'd have figured your wife would have had trouble with dishes and clothes washing and gotten you to do something about it.
Of course, those things may well be part of your duties and you just put off the hard/soft water fix for a number of years. :)
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is hard but not agressive. Then there's the water I grew up with - hard as a stone and as agressive as battery acid.
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On 4/14/2012 3:57 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Yeah, I grew up in Corpus Christi, TX the drinking water was river water and very soft. In Houston most is from the ground and pretty hard.
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I had that KW water eat a few of my copper pipes after 20 years.
---------- wrote in message Some places the water is naturally soft - and others the hard water is hard but not agressive. Then there's the water I grew up with - hard as a stone and as agressive as battery acid.
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wrote:

28? What do you have, a bloody motel???? There is a total of 16 water outlets in my whole house. If I shut off the soft water I affect 5 of them. If I shut off the hot water I affect 5. If I shut off all soft water I affect 8. I can live with any one of those situations untill I can repair whatever has gone wrong, assuming it is more than just repairing a faucet, which I can isolate totally.

I use a water softener, but I don't soften drinking water, toylet flush, or outside faucet.

Once a valve is seized by the hard water up here, NOTHING is going to get it moving again - and even soft water shutoff valves can (and do) go wonky after a while - unless they are ball valves.

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