scraper plane help needed...

[bridger]

anybody here have a link to a good in depth write up on tuning a stanley #80?

[Frank McVey]

Hi, Bridger.

Sharpen it pretty much as you would a normal cabinet scraper. Have a look at:

[bridger]

so I'm having a difficult time keeping it from chattering. it's an older late style #80 with a lot of wear I got offa ebay with no blade. I made one from stock I had on hand, it's 0.057 saw blade stock, which I figured would be plenty thick enough for the application, but it's not working. Anybody here have a stock blade you could mike and let me know how thick it is?

I've tried a bunch of different grind angles, amounts of blade showing and agressivenesses of hook, but no joy. what gives?

[Andy Dingley]

0.042" -- an old Sweetheart, and a new English one.

[Conan the Librarian]

That sounds plenty thick for the blade.

Usually when I get chatter, it's because I have too much blade exposed. Also, it could be that you're not maintaining enough downward pressure so the scraper sole isn't staying in close enough contact with the wood (this would actually be "skipping" vs. "chattering", but the end-result can appear similar).

FWIW, you might want to try using it without any hook at all to see if it works better. It will tend to cut less aggressively, and if you find it works, then you can gradually add a bit of a hook to it and test it along the way to see if there is a point at which it no longer works. That gives you something to aim for the next time you prepare the edge.

Chuck Vance

[Joe Wells]

FWIW, Hock #80 blades are a full 1/16" thick. Presumably to help reduce chatter. I haven't had a chance to try mine out yet, though.

[bridger]

that I would have expected. I can adjust it back until it doesn't cut at all, the start advancing it in tiny increments until it just barely hits the wood- taking off basically nothing- and it's already chattering. AAARRRRGGGGHHHH.

this is possible, I suppose. I'll pay better attention next time. just how much downward pressure is needed? more than a card scraper? less?

thanks.

I assume you mean with the edge stoned at 45° and no hook rolled. I'll try that.

[bridger]

thanks. I didn't have a blade to work from, so I used the thickest I had.

I have a hard time imagining the blade being too thick being a source of chatter. *that* goes contrary to everything I know...

any clues what's up?

[bridger]

heh.

sitting here getting ready to carry it back out to the shop for another try at a new sharpening configuration and with the vernier caliper sitting next to it I on a whim used the beam of the caliper to chech the sole for flatness.

convex by a lot. 1/16" or so.

DUH....

[Conan the Librarian]

You beat me to it. I was reading your last post in this thread and thinking about the other thread about tuning a plane and the light-bulb went off. :-)

FWIW, have you checked it both with and without the blade clamped in place? That can make a substantial difference in how flat a sole is.

Chuck Vance

[bridger]

a couple of hours of quality time with the mill and a quick swipe at lapping the sole with a sharpening stone and now it's making big fat curlies. WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!

I'd think not as much on an 80 as on other planes. the 80 has an integral "frog" and the forces clamping the blade to it are almost parallel the sole. once I get into really lapping it I'll pay attention to that...

thanks, all. another "wreck moment"....

[Dave Hinz]

OK, so I have a milling machine, are you saying you've used one for getting a plane close to ready? How would I clamp the darn thing?

[bridger]

clamping was half of the time ; ^ )

for the 80, there wasnt much to grab. I cut a block of wood in half at the angle of the "frog" and sandwiched the "frog" between the halves. I had to rout relief and shave clearance for various bosses and lumps, but once I did that it was a decent fit. I used the center thumbscrew threaded hole to bolt one side of the block to the scraper and a bar clamp to hold the other half of the block in. then I clamped the whole thing down to the mill table with the mill dogs.

for a plane with square sides I'd grab it in the mill vise by the sides (cheeks?)

[Dave Hinz]

Only half? Usually, setup takes much longer than cutting, but maybe that's just me.

Ah, I'll give that a shot. Prolly start on one of the crappier ones. But yes, I'll check the sites to make sure it's not a rare varient of whatever, just in case I screw it up.

About that, does any of this reduce collector value of an antique Stanley, or is it all considered "making the tool work right" so it's OK, or ???

Dave Hinz

[Andy Dingley]

Last time I saw someone do this with a #112 it was pretty easy.

Roughly cut a softwood packing block to rest on the upper surface of the sole. Screw a couple of bolts into the handle hold-downs. Use fork-ended milling clamps to grab these and pull them downwards. Remove the cracked casting from the mill table and order a whole new plane from Lee Valley...

[bridger]

well, that wasn't including collet change and bit setup. and even then, clamping may have been a bit more than half.

if it's a collector, don't touch it. if you're me, don't even own it. sell it and get a dozen users....

cracking is a real risk. be careful with clamp setup and fit blocks and wedges wherever you need to to keep from having to torque down too hard on odd-shaped iron castings.

[Conan the Librarian]

Congrats. Those things are fun to use, no? If you find you rely on it a lot, you might even consider getting a Hock blade for it. Those things are 1/16" thick, IIRC, and really do seem to make a difference in performance.

Of course you're right. I was thinking in terms of planes and the combination of stresses that the frog and cap-iron screw bring into play.

But if Dave Hinz is reading this part of the thread, he might want to be sure to have the iron in place and everything set up as if he were going to take a shaving (with the iron retracted, of course), before lapping or checking the sole of a plane for flatness.

Chuck Vance

[Conan the Librarian]

This made me laugh out loud. :-) Not that I've ever done it (no, really), but that was exactly what I was thinking when reading about clamping a plane/scraper/whatever body in place to work on it.

FWIW, Paul Womack (a.k.a. "Bugbear"), who makes an occasional appearance around these parts, has made a jig for helping to hold planes while filing their soles flat. It's at:

Scroll down until you get to "Hold Still" for some pics and a description.

Chuck Vance

[Dave Hinz]

Anyone in this conversation by any chance, Andy?

Right. But won't that put a concentrated stress on the...

Gotcha.

Dave Hinz

[Dave Hinz]

See, that's the thing. I'm not sure that milling the sole would get me anywhere, because all of the other stresses that distort the sole in normal use aren't going to be present. There's always glass and wet/dry sandpaper. That's what TV is for, right?

Dave