scrape panels before glue up?

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Hi,
I am making a cherry dining table. It will have five 2x4ft panels. most will have 3 boards, one will have 5...I plan to scrape all of it for the finished surface, no sanding if I can help it...They are all planed to 7/8"...
If I glue up the panels first, they will be on the large side for hand scraping. If i scrape them first i can reach them better. Then I could scrape and clean up the joints, etc... Is there any reason why I shouldn't scrape the individual boards first? One thing I thought of was damaging the edge somehow, which would be avoided by gluing up first... does it even matter? Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with such wide panels...
thanks for any comments....
david
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david blumberg wrote:
> I am making a cherry dining table. It will have five 2x4ft panels. most > will have 3 boards, one will have 5...I plan to scrape all of it for the > finished surface, no sanding if I can help it...They are all planed to > 7/8"... > > If I glue up the panels first, they will be on the large side for hand > scraping. If i scrape them first i can reach them better. Then I could > scrape and clean up the joints, etc... Is there any reason why I > shouldn't scrape the individual boards first? One thing I thought of > was damaging the edge somehow, which would be avoided by gluing up > first... does it even matter? Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide > panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with > such wide panels...
Glue up the panels, then head for the contract drum sander.
Have them leave you 1/32" proud, then scrape for final finish.
Lew
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lew,
thanks for the reply....I have considered that option. I am concerned about the dulling effects of the grit on the scraping process...
david
Lew Hodgett wrote:

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The scraper will remove any grit, that's why you're scraping.
Your scraper is a consumable. Why worry about using it?
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dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca says...

Depends on where you are, I suppose. Took me about a year to find the two cabinet scrapers I have, here in NZ. I had them for nearly 20 years now. I only need to regrind every 3rd or 5th project, because I use no abrasives before scraping. These should see me out ... it'd be very very hard to replace them, so I do not consider them a consumable, I consider them a prize posession ;-)
-P.
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Ah. I assume you mean a scraper plane, rather than a cabinet scraper? I have a reasonable collection of scrapers. They're cheap and easy to obtain. Vis:
<http://www.leevalley.com/w ood/page.aspx?c=1&p2670&cat=1,310,41069>
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dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca says...

Nope, I meant cabinet scraper :) Different country, different 'continent'. 20 years ago it was virtually impossible to find them in New Zealand. There may be one or two specialist shops in the country that carry them ... the common or garden hardware stores don't nor do the building supply stores. 'tis a small country.
-P.
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They are very easily made from any piece of medium hard steel.
says...

stores
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Peter Huebner wrote:

It has mail? :)
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dadiOH
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Peter Huebner wrote:

Peter,
Aside from Lee Valley which very reliably keeps us Kiwis in tools, there's always Carbatec in Auckland (www.carbatec.co.nz) 0800-444-329.
Cheers,
Larry
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On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 23:23:52 -0600, Dave Balderstone

I think terminolgy differs quite a bit on scrapers. To me, a *cabinet scraper* is a #80 Pieces of metal, regarless of shape I call *card scrapers*
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snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com says...

Indeed. Poor cabinet scraper. :-\ You spend more time burnishing and re- grinding the scraper than scraping after wholesale sanding has taken place ... although that may partly depend on the quality of the abrasives used.
-P.
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david blumberg wrote:

In which case, use a cheap Stanley and don't bother burnishing it.
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I've never had any problem with scraping after sanding. In any case, if you do a decent glue up, there is no reason that you need to put it through a drum sander.

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This thread kind of makes you wonder how anyone in the late 1700's was able to make today's priceless antiques without the benefit of the power tools we have at our disposal. Drum sander? Sure, I guess, but why not a #7 and for smoothing a, well, smoothing plane like a #4? Sure it's more labor intensive, but it works and works extremely well.
I have a friend who has graduated from RISD, took a year-long furniture-making course at North Bennett and has 20 years in the business. His take is this. If you want to be a craftsman, you need to first know how to work with your hands. His feeling is that electrical power only increases productivity, not quality. Productivity is only important when you are paid by the piece. Sure, he uses electrical power, but only to save time on ripping, cross cutting, initial dimensioning and so on. From that point it's hand tools all the way.
BTW he is the only person, other than Frank K., that I have seen cut a through dovetail without measuring. Pretty sick.
Have fun!

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"news.east.cox.net" wrote in message

how
save
Yep ... that is indeed the _real_ measure of a true woodworker. Makes you wonder how the OP will manage to glue up a table top without the ability to do that.
"Productivity is only important when you are paid by the piece"?
Gosh ... now that's really astounding in its profundity!
Been nice to hear something pertinent to the question from the practitioner himself, but we understand that he's probably busy being productive so he can finally get paid.
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snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com says...

Even if you use bisquits or dowels to locate your boards before the glue up you will quite likely get enough creep to make the first scraping a waste of time.

Quite possibly. I've done that (albeit by sanding a joint before assembly) - miserable result. I only do prefinish prior to glue up these days.

Should not be a problem at all. I've scraped several tables that were 6'x3' ~ish after final assembly (I use an Ulmia finishing plane at its finest possible setting at 45 degrees to the grain to remove gluing-up ridges before scraping -- hardly need any scraping at all -- and I have no problem reaching.
h.t.h. -Peter
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Peter Huebner wrote:

Scrape. Spline. Touch up.
JP
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Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions...
Peter Huebner wrote:

That is what I was thinking. I wont use dowels or biscuits, anyway...

thanks, I think I will glue one up and then do the scraping on the whole panel. I hope to avoid sanding if I can...The scraped finish is so much clearer and deeeper. I have card scrapers, No. 80s, and just got a Veritas scraper plane, which I am having some trouble fine tuning, but I will practice on the bottom of the panels first. The table (48" diameter with three 2 ft extensions)will sit in a bay with windows on 3 sides, so i am sure all the flaws will be highlighted at some point during the day! Thanks again...
david

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"david blumberg" wrote in message

Not really.

Simply climb on up and scrape away at the hard to reach spots. I've gotten old enough that I now need knee pads on big table tops, but still do it when required. It's how I did this one:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table11.jpg
One thing that I've found helpful on any panel glue-up, but particularly on the large ones, is using a replaceable blade paint scraper over the joints before scraping for a finish. Cheap, fast, and effective for removing the squeeze out and getting that initial level.
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