SawStop vs. Bosch-- Let the Games Begin!!

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On 3/18/2015 8:12 PM, snipped-for-privacy@zzz.com wrote:

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I went ahead and ordered a replacement cartridge when I bought my SS - it was $69 for a 10-inch cartridge and $89 for the 8-inch dado cartridge. Money well spent I'd say.
Dave in SoTex
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http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/839901/SawStop-10-Brake-Cartridge.aspx http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/839902/SawStop-8-Dado-Brake-Cartridge.aspx
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Om craiglist locally a SS contractors saw
http://carbondale.craigslist.org/tls/4938152999.html
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The few SawStop mechanisms that I've sold - were all due to " non personal " contact - ie : wet wood and metal .. John T.
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On 3/19/2015 7:44 AM, hubops wrote:

Which reminds me, I need to call SS and inquire into the details of cutting wet wood. I have cut wet wood and the saw simply shut down after cutting a few inches. It continued to do this until I used the over ride switch. But I wonder what is going to happen if I cut into my aluminum miter fence...
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On 3/19/2015 7:03 AM, Leon wrote:

A friend of mine has already 'tried that experiment'. He has the blade/brake combo hanging on his shop wall.
Dan
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Dan Coby wrote:

Gosh, I could have warned him! ; )

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wrote:

Gee, Leon. Who would do such a thing? ;-)
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On 3/19/2015 7:25 PM, snipped-for-privacy@zzz.com wrote:

That is how you tell if it is aluminum or iron! :~)
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On 3/18/2015 7:00 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

That is not a certainty but I would certainly return the blade to the manufacturer with details and an estimate to restore. I understand that some have been repaired. I am not sure that realistically it will matter one way or another. Considering the fact that you save a trip to the ER the cost of a new blade and brake does not even factor in if you screw up. For certain the Bosch will be less expensive for every owner to perform the weenie test. ;~)

There are those that look at it that way but if you test the limits of your anti lock brakes by driving more recklessly there is a big possibility that you are going to do something else that is stupid which will kill you. I don't buy it myself. I'm not one to look down the barrel of a gun and pull the trigger because I know the safety is on....

LOL... I bet there are those that would not want that feature to save their lives to keep from totaling the airplane..

For me absolutely the SawStop was worth the price. 3 table saws ago I cut half my thumb off on my TS. No one could believe that happened to ME. I was pretty strict safety.
Unfortunately I am not up on the 1,342,657,345,343,001 possible ways to harm your self with a TS. I don't believe anyone else is either. Then add to that no one is perfect and some times we work a little too long... There are countless reasons. Anyway I can afford it so I bought it. I really don't want to go to the ER again. FWIW I had turned my saw off before cutting my thumb. Yes it was a dumb mistake and one I repeated one year later. It all happened so fast I had no idea what happened. Fortunately when I repeated the mistake 1 year later I did not have as much thumb in harms way and only felt the breeze of the blade as it was coasting down to a stop.

I would say for the vast majority no. For those that throw caution to the wind, if this does not get them something else will. And FWIW putting a blade brake on a saw does not guarantee not being harmed.

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On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 23:17:21 -0500

What happens to the blade? is it pinched and warped or something more violent

Can't put a price on having all your original appendages i didn't know how the SS worked other than I saw the gizmo at the heart of it, the electronic part not the mechanical

well they gather mountains of data because that's what insurance companies do and these were not daredevils just normal drivers that thought hey I have ABS so i can expect more from this car it's a subtle thing that showed up after a lot of data
we will never get that data with tablesaws i think the most important thing is to understand what's really going on with any tool
people need to stop and think what forces are involved what might happen if something goes wrong which direction will it go, etc.
it comes easier to some than to others

no joke there're definitely pilots that see it as an impediment to honing and keeping real pilot skills
but it sells more planes, funny thing is those planes without a chute are really nice and much safer than the previous designs but it comes down to good maintanence with planes

sory to hear that

It's potential to harm is great but it's overblown and I think that is even a problem for a lot of folks, they fear the table saw and operating it in fear is not good combo

plus as I've seen you mention it's a well made saw

I'm glad you said that because the mindset in the shop or around power tools is very important
gotta know when to do something with potential for harm I do most cutting early when I'm fresh but may be a luxury for some
if I'm distracted with something try to deal with it then get back to the saw
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On 3/19/2015 1:06 AM, Electric Comet wrote:

A spring loaded aluminum brake pad with relief holes drilled in it is pushed up into the spinning blade. It normally rests less than 1/8" from the blade and is about 2" long. The holes allow the blade to penetrate deeply into the aluminum. Also the blade drops below the surface of the saw releasing tension on belts so that the brake does not have to stop the momentum of the motor too. Because most quality carbide blades can very easily cut through aluminum I don't believe the damage is severe but I certainly would want the manufacturer to do and sign off on the repair. I suspect a few teeth would have to be replaced and the blade maybe be re flattened. something I have Forrest check for every time I send my blades in for resharpening.

Exactly and then expect the unexpected.

LOL yeah that same through process is mentioned with TS safety by some. And that is a good thing but having a safer saw is part of practicing saw safety.

Absolutely. You certainly should not feat operating a TS as this is the first sign that you may not know all of the possible situations you can encounter if you are not thinking about what you are doing. OTOH you should feat what can happen if you are careless. After I cut my thumb I was more fearful of the saw, up until I almost cut my thumb again and finally realized exactly took place. Originally I thought I was cutting a piece of wood and had a kick back. I was cutting a dado. In actuality I had finished the cut, laid the wood down, turned the saw off, and was reaching over the spinning blade to grab the far end of the fence to remove it.
New rule.... don't go near the blade after a cut until you see it stop spinning. Seems pretty damn reasonable to do this anyway but some of us learn the hard way. But having said that there are numerous similar ways to be hurt while not cutting wood.

The industrial version certainly is, there is a lot of cast iron under the table. A comparison I make is that the SS industrial, being a cabinet saw too, is that it has about 200 lbs more iron in the trunnion assembly. It weighs in at about 700lbs with the hydraulic mobile base, 52" capacity fence and out feed rollers. The SS Professional saw I am sure is every bit as well built as most any cabinet saw in the same price range. I had a Jet cabinet saw and wanted to step up to heavier and to a larger/deeper table top in addition to having the safer features of a riving knife and the blade brake. That was the only reason I chose the industrial over the professional version.

Yes, if you are on a deadline you have to often work past your prime attention time. I try to never use the TS when some one comes up to visit me in my garage unless they are actually there to help.
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On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 9:59:15 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
...snip...

That reminds of what I told SWMBO many years ago, after she startled me by pounding loudly on the shop door while it was very quiet and I was just sta nding there thinking.
"If you don't hear the sound of a power tool, please don't pound on the doo r because it will startle me. If you do hear the sound of a power tool, ple ase don't pound on the door because it will startle me. Being startled when it's quiet is annoying. Being startled when it's noisy is dangerous."
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On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:00:58 -0700, Electric Comet wrote:

It works by firing a block of aluminum up into the blade. It'd take one heck of a sturdy blade to survive that! Even getting the block of aluminum off of the blade is a bear.
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On 3/19/2015 12:15 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

Ok, to be completely honest as to how this works the aluminum block is not fired. It is under spring tension and held in place by a fusable link. When the machine detects skin contact an electrical charge is sent to melt the fusable link and the spring pushes the aluminum part of the brake into the blade. The rotation of the blade does the rest, it naturally cuts and jams into the block like it would into a piece of wood.
I have yet to see a blade destroy itself after this event, and I have seen it happen many times in demonstrations. Certainly the blade is damaged to some extent and may certainly not be worth repairing but is a far cry from being non survivable or destroyed.
There are several pictures here of a blade that was used in the test. I don't see anything wrong with the blade but I certainly would want it to be checked out before returning it to normal use.
http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/sawstop2.html
If you google sawstop blade brake and click on images there will be numerous images of blades imedded in the brake and and after the brake was removed. None that I can see is even missing a carbide tooth. But again I would certainly want to have the blade checked out before reusing.
Now having said all of this the force of the motor is gone when the blade drops and the brake trips so I am certain that this minimizes damage to both the blade and brake.
And from the expert advice at the SawStop FAQ web site,
Can the blade be reused if the safety system brake is activated? When the safety system activates, it will often damage one to two teeth on the blade. It is usually cost-effective to have high-quality blades repaired by a qualified blade sharpening service. However, less expensive blades should be discarded.
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On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:57:19 -0500

Interesting implementation wonder if this idea came from industry to if it's a novel idea/approach

damage is what bent/warped blade or fractures or

Who would check it out to your satisfaction and what would they charge
I would just try the blade and see if it works
BTW in the bosch video I thought I saw the blade out of balance or off center when it was restarted maybe it was just the logo on the blade

makes sense but like below depends on the blade

a visual inspection and a test run seems adequate
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