There's another problem here. Technology which is rushed into wide use by government mandate may not be completely understood and hence not fully developed. This happened with air bags and produced a lot of injuries.
See:
The fact that we have many laws does not mean that we _need_ many laws. That sound you hear is the Founders turning in their graves.
A lawsuit may come from any direction. You can just as easily make the argument that a saw company may be sued because it *could* have installed Sawstop but didn't. So I don't believe that fear of lawsuits was the primary rationale for turning down Sawstop. I would bet on cost being the primary reason.
Sure: just look at the reaction in this ng.
If I get to 67 - and I'm not that far away - I will see even less clearly than I do now, my reactions will be even slower, my strength will have diminshed even further, my thought processes will be slower, and my sense of balance will be even worse. So I will assume that the chance that I will have a digit-subtracting accident will be considerably higher than when I was 35.
snip
There's a simple miscommunication here, amplified by the powers of USENET.
I just saw a 12/14" PM go for $900 at auction. No way I'm spending $2500 for a saw that can't cut a hot dog.
JP
Dude, are you, like, a civil litigator?
JP
GregP responds:
Jeez, boy, it doesn't happen that fast for most of us. I'm 66 and so far, my powers have been reduced, but cataract surgery brought the eyesight back (better than ever), I haven't fallen into a tool yet, and I do things a shade more slowly--and stay off motorcycles--to make up for slower reaction times. I'm not as strong as I was 15-20 years ago, but I'm not lifting weights 6 or 8 hours a week any more either.
Woodworking doesn't have a whole lot to do with reaction time unless you screw up. And the need for strength is over-rated, though I can still walk a 500 pound saw around the shop without much trouble.
Charlie Self "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston Churchill
That may well be true.
Much is being read into the fact that Sawstop has not shipped any machines yet. There are some pretty straightforward issues here, tho, that have nothing to do with the safety gizmo and all to do with it being a brand new company in this business. I wonder how long it took Grizzly to release its first product from the day it formed itself ? That's one aspect. Another is the fear by potential customers that they will end up with an orphan saw: how many of us would buy the first product from a brand-new company that, like all brand-new companies, has a high probability of failure ? And in addition to its stupid attempt to assure success by regulation, though one that has a long tradition in the US, it will also be hurt by the knee-jerk reaction to a product whose primary "selling point" is an attempt to reduce injury. I don't think that the name helps it much either: are they selling a saw or an add-on ? The implication of the name is that the saw itself is secondary and perhaps did not receive the attention that the device did. But still, I hope they succeed, and if they're around for a few years I will most likely buy one.
I believe that the aspect of the technology that caused problems *was* understood quite early on. Most of the injuries and, in the case of infants and very small children, some deaths occurred because the government bureau- crats in charge refused to back off on the opening force requirements to resolve the problem. Personally, I think that these several individuals should have been prosecuted for their behavior.
Hell, old man, a "lot of us" are DEAD by 66, haven't ya noticed ? :-)
Welll, that's part of the problem. Some of us aren't quite as ambidextrous as some others. Some of us even have problems walking and chewing gum at the same time. You could argue that those of us so unendowed should stay away from power tools altogether, but some of us do like a bit of spice & danger in our lives. Just not too much....
In the air, or on the ground ? (I just want to know whether I'll have to buy wheels for the damn thing in another few years).
GregP asks:
Arnie Swarzenego is the only one who can do the air thing with 500 pounds. Did you read his comment about being the only one who could lift the CA governor's conferance table? Where's Jesse Ventura now that he's needed?
Charlie Self "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston Churchill
(when you top-post like this, I can't respond to your message with Doug's as context.)
You are putting up a straw-man argument, assigning to your opponent a point of view he has not stated so you can drag it back down.
I suspect that he will also recognize and reject your use of a cheap rhetorical tactic.
Dave Hinz
Also, the government mandates a technology, and leaves the companies out to dry when the technology is rushed into use by law. Airbag suits were not thrown out when someone was hurt or killed by an airbag that performed exactly in the mandated manner.
Grant
snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTm>
Can you point me to a single example of this?
Not hardly. If they make a stupid decision, it's them doing it. Them misunderstanding "Airbags, as a supplimental restraint system, will make you safer" doesn't mean they've been misled, it means they don't comprehend well. Dave Hinz
Guess I should run for governor, eh ?
How so? I drive Saab cars in part because they're so safe. I take safety precautions, often with extra expense, with many aspects of my life. But, my adverse reaction to SawStop is that (a) it doesn't exist as a product I can buy, and (b) they want to force me to buy an unworkable solution. Maybe in another 5 years they'll get their shit together and actually be able to sell 'em, and I'll think about buying one, but don't force me to buy something that doesn't work.
I'm just ignoring him, Dave.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
That's certainly the easiest way to recognize and reject it, then...
Do you think it was six years before they shipped anything? Hardly.
-j
J responds:
Probably more like a month, or the time it took to get tools here after they'd already been contracted in Taiwan. The owner of Grizzly knew exactly what he's doing, as he has known pretty much every step of the way since he started back in '83. Get the product to the customer as fast as possible, at the lowest possible cost consistent with reasonable quality, and improve the product as fast as is possible without blowing costs out of sight.
Charlie Self "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston Churchill
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