Sawstop--the wrong marketing approach?

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It just occurred to me that the replacement parts for the Sawstop could be a profit center for saw manufacturers. Especially if it falses occasionally. Probably be able to make as much margin on those as on a blade.
Wonder if he tried to sell it that way? The razor and blades approach. Give away the sawstop and figure enough people are hamfingered enough to make up the cost in consumables?
Be interesting to see some market research on that.
If there are 30,000 table-saw related injuries that require a hospital visit every year (and presumably most of those would have triggered the sawstop if it was present) how many more were there that did not require a hospital visit but would have triggered the sawstop? There seem to be about ten non-amputations for every amputation, if that carries through to non-hospital then there would be about 300,000 Sawstop activations a year. So what is that in terms of percentage of the installed base of saws?
--
--John
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Would you pay $100 for everytime Sawstop fired or misfired to replace the parts? Would you be comfortable installing safety mechanisms yourself? Personally, I would answer No to both questions and therein lies the dilemma for being commercially viable in the hobbyist market. Bob
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Bob wrote:

If the choice was that or 1600 bucks for a new saw, then the answer is obvious.

From what the sawstop people say, replacing the cartridge is in the same order of difficulty as replacing a fuse. No "installing" required beyond pull out the old one, stick in the new one. If it's more complicated than that they've got a problem.

How about in a pro market?

--
--John
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Why would that be the only choice? Do you buy a new saw when you have an accident on it?
An equally valid choice would be pay $100 or have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich rammed down your throat by a purple titanium robot while you are sleeping. I hate false dilemmas.
-j
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J wrote:

If the accident does $100 worth of damage to the saw then the choice is to pay the $100 to fix it or to get a new saw. Same situation.

How is that an "equally valid choice"? It makes absolutely no sense as an analogy.

What "false dilemma"? If one has a saw equipped with a Sawstop, then the choice is to replace the cartridge for 100 bucks, replace the saw for whatever is the price of a new saw, defeat the absent cartridge, or don't saw. I don't see another option.
-j
--
--John
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??? really?

Hey! That is what I was trying to say!

Now you offer 4 choices. You understand that this proves that the first post with only two choices was a false dilemma, don't you?
-j
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J wrote:

Yes, really. The sawstop fires, you now have a saw that won't run until you fix it, same as if anything else went wrong with it.

What is what you were trying to say?

I understand that you seem more interested in the cleverness of your own argument than in any kind of discourse.
Life's too short.

--
--John
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I thought you said the choice was to buy a new saw for $1600? That is why I said really. Which one is it?

You started it.
-j
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J wrote:

Huh? Where did I say that? If you look at the third line of this post you will see that I said "If the choice was that or 1600 bucks for a new saw . . ." The part that you snipped clearly indicates that the "that" in that sentence was "pay $100 for a new Sawstop cartridge".

Started what? I made a comment on a possible marketing strategy. Then you come in here with all this bullshit about "false dilemmas" when it is clear that your real problem is comprehension of the English language.

--
--John
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Yes, it is clear that Sawstop's marketing approach is failing due to my comprehension of the English language. I shouldn't have been sleeping through the part when they were talking about the gerund. My apologies to you and Sawstop.
-j
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snip

There's a simple miscommunication here, amplified by the powers of USENET.
I just saw a 12/14" PM go for $900 at auction. No way I'm spending $2500 for a saw that can't cut a hot dog.
JP
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That is the point he is making. You'd happily pay $100 or more if it save your finger from being amputated. Yes, you'd be very PO'd on a false reaction, but I'd put $1000 in the till if it saves a finger.
IMO, the idea if fantastic and I'd be willing to pay a premium to have it on my saw. Just like airbags in a car and life vests on a boat. BUT . . . yes, that is a BUT I want to see it as proven technology that it will save my skin and not give false tripping.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

What is the point?

Don't presume to tell me what I would do, sir.

Agreed. But it _is_ going to trigger under circumstances where no injury would have occured.
--
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The false dillema is what you are not understanding. That's OK, not everyone does.

I apologize. It was very presumptuous of me to assume that everyone would be willing to pay $100 to avoid having a finger cut off. I guess there are exceptions. My fingers are worth that much to me, but your are worth how much?
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

There is no "false dilemma". If your saw doesn't work then you have to do something about it and the only real solution that does not involve fixing the saw is to get a new saw.
You can play word games about "false dilemmas" until Hell freezes over and it won't alter the fact.

You assume that the alternatives are to pay $100 or to get a finger cut off. Talk about "false dilemmas".
--
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Why is this the "only real solution?" There are others as well.
It is a SawStop saw that they sell. If a $1600 saw becomes a fused pile of metal, then this would be a major marketing problem. I would assume there is a warranty.
One might have purchased an extended service contract. Someone may buy the used one from you for half price and fix it themselves. There may be an after-market kit to fix it.
You are talking about a possible consequence that there is no evidence that is it real. You might as well say "Yeah, but the blade might come loose and go flying through the air at 100 miles an hour" or "It might start a fire and burn my house down" or "The God of woodworkers might strike me down for being disrespectful to the Law of Fingers."
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Care to suggest any?
Seems obvious enough that if the saw doesn't work, the options are limited to: 1) repair it 2) replace it 3) don't use it
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

Which are?

That _who_ sell? We're talking about a saw with a Sawstop. It doesn't have to be _their_ saw, it could be a Delta or a Jet or a Grizzly or a Craftsman. The assumption is just that for whatever reason the saw that you have has a Sawstop on it.

While that is true, it is irrelevant and I don't understand why you bring it up. I'm not sure what point you think you are addressing. The fact that a Sawstop cartridge destroys itself when it activates and has to be replaced at a cost of approximately $100 is claimed by Sawstop. If you think they are lying about that then you should take it up with them.

There _is_ "after-market kit to fix it". It's called a "Sawstop cartridge" and Sawstop gets $100 for it. It's patented, there's no other source for it than Sawstop or one of their licensees.
If one purchased an "extended service contract" it's debatable whether that would cover the Sawstop cartridge, which is designed to destroy itself when it operates, and which I would expect to be considered a consumable part like brake pads on a car. In any case, one would still have to replace the cartridge.
If someone buys the used one from you and fixes it himself, you are still without a saw until you buy a new one.

I'm sorry, but what "consequence" is that? You do something that triggers the Sawstop, the Sawstop triggers--that's its purpose and it is designed to do that and if it fails to do that then the manufacturer would be open to serious liability claims. When the Sawstop triggers, the cartridge destroys itself while stopping the blade. That is not a matter of conjecture, that is the manner in which the manufacturer claims that it operates, and one would assume that he would know this about his product. To replace the cartridge will cost you or the warranty company or _somebody_ $100. That again is not a matter of conjecture. That is the amount that the manufacturer of the Sawstop says that he is going to charge for the replacement part. Again, one may assume that he knows this about his product.
So I fail to understand what "possible consequence that there is no evidence that is it real" you are talking about.

If the manufacturer of the Sawstop claimed that it would make the blade come loose and go flying through the air at 100 miles an hour or that it would start a fire and burn the house down or that it would make the God of woodworkers strike one down for being disrespectful to the Law of Fingers then it would be reasonable to discuss those as normal consequences of its use. He does not claim that. He claims that when it activates, the cartridge must be replaced at a cost of $100.
So, when it fires, your choice is to replace the cartridge for $100 out of your pocket or out of somebody's pocket, get a new saw that works without your having to replace the cartridge, or to not saw. I see no room for conjecture here.

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OK, now we're getting close. Go back to the original analogy about having a PBJ jammed down your throat. That was the false dilemma.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Not _my_ false dilemma. "J" was using that to make some point that I never quite understood and referring to my statement that if you have a Sawstop saw and the Sawstop fires your choice is to replace the Sawstop cartridge or buy a new saw as the "false dilemma".
--
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