Sawstop - probably a stupid question

Page 7 of 11  
Leon wrote:

At the time of the "giant bail out" Microsoft purchased 150 million dollars worth of Apple preferred stock. "Preferred" stock is non-voting. At the time Apple has 1.5 billion dollars in "cash and cash equivalents" on hand. Yeah, they were _really_ in trouble. I should be so poor.

Everybody lost share to IBM. But Apple did not lose as much as their competitors. What other computer hardware company that was in business the day the IBM PC shipped is still in business? The only ones that come to mind are Rat Shack and Cray.

There was always hardware and software available for an Apple not produced by Apple. Remember Visicalc? Remember the coprocessor boards that let Apples run CP/M? I can't remember now what all was available, but accessorizing the Apple was an industry in itself.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We were only talking about Apple.

I don't think so. At least it was not authorized by Apple.
Jobs wanted everything under Apples control and there was basically no choice.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:13:39 GMT, "Leon"

Actually I don't think that philosophy started until the Macintosh. During the Apple II days *everybody* made stuff for the Apple.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The may be true. All I recall is that this was the situation at one time.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

To some extent when the Mac was introduced, but not to the extent that you claim. There was always third-party software. Further, given the popularity of the Mac when it first came out, Apple clearly was doing _something_ right.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Apple even created the position of "Evangelist" and sent their evangelist out to recruit 3rd party software people. If not for Adobe the mac would have died. You may be right about HW and OS, but this is definitely not true about SW.
-j
wrote:

time.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You are correct as far as application software is concerned. The reason there wasn't a lot of Mac software out for a long time was that it was beastly hard to program for. It used the first object-oriented OS, but there weren't any OO tools for development. The SDK for the Mac cost thousands ($5K-10K) and was incredibly poorly written. One of my co-workers was in charge of creating a Mac version of our product when it first came out. The cost and effort almost sunk the company. It was easily 10 times the work to write Mac software as DOS stuff - even if you were doing Window 3.1 (the competition in the early Mac days). Apple was very bad at helping developers and I think it really hurt them. Add to that the fact that they didn't support color until long after everyone else on earth was into hi-res and you pretty much have their recipe for failure.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

And your point is? My point, since you clearly weren't able to grasp it, is that very few computer companies survived the PC onslaught. Apple was one of the very few.

You don't think what?
If you will study the early history of Apple a bit, you will find that Visicalc was the "killer App" that made Apple as a company. As for it being "authorized", this business of being "authorized" is relatively new. When the Apples first came out Jobs was just happy that somebody was writing software for it--he didn't have the resources to roll his own--he and Woz had all they could handle getting production up and orders coming in.
I'm getting the impression that you are not aware that there was Apple before there was Macintosh. Apple's first billion dollar year occurred when they were selling 8-bit 6502 machines that didn't even have a video board unless you bought one.

In some other universe perhaps. In this one he kept control of the OS and the hardware and provided some application software but most of the Mac software base was _not_ provided by Apple. Ever hear of something called "Pagemaker"? How about "Microsoft Excel"? "Quark Express"? "Photoshop"? Those were Mac apps long before they were ported to the PC. Further, for a while Apple was licensing the OS to third parties--that proved to be a compatibility disaster though. As for controlling the hardware, you might ask yourself why the high end contemporary Macs have expansion slots.
Really, your view of the history of Apple is horribly distorted.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SNIP

Perhaps. But I am not going to loose any sleep over it...

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:11:07 -0500, "J. Clarke"

Passing the bar *never* equated with "well off financially."
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"ted harris" wrote in message

I won't piss on your leg if you don't try to piss on mine.
Did you ever hear of their attempt to legislate the _mandatory_ use of their technology?
That fact sort puts a lie to the altruistic motives in which you attempt to cloak the inventor.
Just my opinion, though.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ted harris wrote:

Lemme guess--you're really a sock puppet for Steve Gass.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:21:30 -0800, "ted harris"
oh, there will be plenty of other suckers....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In typed:

I wish I had money to invest...
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hey Ted:
I ended up hitting your web site while watching some of the discourse here and seeing your sig. Looks like you're going to be in my neck of the woods this spring at the Turning Stone. Drop and email and let's chat about your schedule and maybe we'll be able to hook up while you're in Vernon.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@sprintmail.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Apparently it isn't. I'm not sure that that speaks well for Sawstop, either the technology or the manufacturability.

We'll have to define a number of things, such as what "available", "shipping", and "works" mean first, I suppose. how about a nice TS blade?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In typed:

Oops! Guess we are too late! LOLOLOL... Too bad, cause I coulda' used a nice new saw blade.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not to jump into the middle of this arg - but IIRC, one of the rags (C&D and R&T) had some fun here. They had run across some Driving School where the instruction was to "lock 'em up and lock 'em up hard." I think they brought in some "semi-pro" drivers and tried to see who could stop shorter with the most control. A pro who put the foot down to the limit of locking, or an amature who just stomped on the pedal.
The conditions were dry - and the locked up brakes consistently stopped shorter.
I had driven a lot of miles on ice and snow, and when my first vehicle with ABS showed up, I spent several hours in a empty parking lot retraining my foot to let the system do it's job.
It's still hard to get your head around "I can steer, I can still steer..."
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Right. I saw a similar study, not sure if it was the same.

Well, the ABS "stomp hard on pedal and leave it down" wasn't technically locking up the brakes.
A very good driver can "threshhold brake", where he applies pressure to the foot pedal _just_ shy of losing friction. The problem is, he has one foot pedal, and there are four wheels, each of which are going to have a maximum braking before they start sliding/skidding. One actuator, four outputs. He can only be as good as the slippiest wheel.
ABS, on the other hand, detects slip and modulates the brake pressure to specifially that wheel. It's doing on each of the 4 wheels what the really really good driver can only do on the slippiest of them at best. So, for the one wheel with the least grip, it's as good as an expert driver; for the other 3, it's making adjustments that that driver just can't get to, because he doesn't have 4 left feet or the response time.
The _only_ situation where ABS can be beat by an expert driver is in a slush/heavy snow situation, where you _want_ the tires to slide so the snow gets pushed in the front of the tires as in a snowplow, but of course you can't steer when that's happening.

Fun times. Did the cops stop over to see what you were up to as well? I explained, and they said "have fun" and left. Being in my 30s helped, I'm sure, they were probably expecting a 17 year old or something.

There is some very interesting vector force stuff going on when you're steering while it's in ABS mode. Saved sheet metal damage for me once already, I'm certain.
Dave Hinz
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

when i was auto-xing, there are LOTS of times i didn't want the abs to kick in, mostly when i wanted the rear of the car to step out to turn the car faster.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.