Sawstop - probably a stupid question

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On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:35:03 -0800, "ted harris"

A cigarette sucked into you dust collector can cause an explosion, can't it?
;)
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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In wrote:

No. Never been a documented case of an explosion in a dust collector system. It will however cause a fire.
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Ted Harris
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ted harris wrote:

Are you <sure> of that? (I don't have one, but "never" is a long, long time...)
I'll have to look up the article in Fine Woodworking a year or two ago and refresh my recollections...an Oneida air systems guy wrote in after the published article w/ some additional info/insight as well. I don't recall the exact data/facts, however, I do remember that it does take <large> duct systems (relative to home shops) for there to be anexplosion hazard, however. I don't recall whether there were documented cases listed there other than lab data, however. (Of course grain dust explosions are well known).
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In typed:

Yes...fires have occured, but not explosions. However, I would agree that nothing is "impossible."

Please let me know of your findings.
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Ted Harris
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ted harris wrote:

(regarding wood dust explosions/article in FW...)
I've not had time to look for the article yet but my recollection was that the literature cited therein supported no explosive mixture was likely in small duct systems such as are prevelant in the average shop or mill but that it is of some potential concern in very large systems. I'll try to find it, if I can...
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ted harris wrote:

I find it quite in character that you don't understand the SIMPLE FACT that drunk drivers kill other people, not statistically 40 years down the road but up close and personal.
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--John
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In typed:

One person should not have the right to assault another, no matter the circumstances. But, according to your theory, it would be okay for someone to walk into a public place and shove a needle in your arm, or pour alcohol down their throat. That clears it up for me...
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Ted Harris
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Holy shit, Ted said something logical.
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Only required for the front driver and passenger. Our car had the selling feature of having additionally front side impact air bags and rear seat side impact air bags.
At least some sort of passive restraint system is required, and I don't think anyone likes the

Air bags have been proven. The insurance industry has figures to prove that. You wold not get discounts for air bags if you car was not equipped with them.
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But the technology does _not_ exist, except in their demo units. If they could ship a reliable product, they would be.

Not if the patent is written in such a way as to restrict others from adapting it.

Actually, all that results from that legislation is a gas-guzzler tax.

And yet, I bet there's someone out there who holds the patent on the airbag, and they're not trying to have the government force a single-source for their invention.
Public good is _not_ their motivation. That's fine, really it is, but pretending it is is what gets me.
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I agree, I'd like to see a reliable product first.

Well, that's the whole point of patents, isn't it. But despite the millions of patents out there, usually companies find a way to duplicate the functionality of a product without infringing if there is money to be made. Either that, or they license the patent.

I don't see any conflict between being interested in the public good and wanting to make a profit at the same time. If the standard is to give away anything that would benefit the public, why don't I get my air bags for free? Why can't I just walk into the store and walk out with a fire extinguisher without paying?
I _think_ I understand your ire at their attempt to make their device mandatory. I guess it just doesn't bug me in the same way. I'd like to see the justification from the saw manufacturers as to why they were not interested. That has the potential to irritate me much more.
--
Hank Gillette

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That's not what I'm saying. If you read their petitions to the government, they did the "it's for the chillllldrun" method of emotionalizing the issue as a reason for why they should be given a monopoly. It's disgusting to me when a company claims they're doing something for one reason, when really they're just in it for profit. Fine. Be in it for profit, that's perfectly valid, but be honest about it.

Yes, you're missing my point.

Let's see. It has never shipped a unit to a consumer, and the company who makes this non-existant product wanted to force everyone to use their device, which doesn't yet exist. Yeah, I can't see any reason the manufacturers would tell 'em to go away, can you?
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In typed: <snip>

You mean the way the manufacturers that won't use the technology?...
I cannot believe the shit I am reading here... Sawstop was apparently invented around 1998 or so. This guy and his employees have been fought around every corner for the last 7 yeays by skeptical woodworkers, and muscled by the manufacturers. Looks to me like he has devoted his life to getting this thing going. Now, after almost a decade of rejection, sawstop is delivering saws as we speak. I wonder how many times Steve Gass had to borrow money to feed his family and keep the electricity on? I'll be that even now he is in debt up to his eyeballs. He believes in this technology so much that he stuck his finger in it twice. Someday, all you naysayers and the rest of the world will view this technology as one of the most important advances in rotational cutting safety. Enough of your ridiculous conspiracy theories!
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Ted Harris
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Neither can I.

"Fought around every corner" by the woodworkers, and "muscled by the manufacturers"? That's a bit over the top, don't you think? How, exactly, does declining to purchase a product that doesn't exist constitute "fighting"? How, exactly, does declining to license any particular technology constitute "muscling"? It's not like the manufacturers of other table saws tried to prevent SawStop from coming to market; all they did was say "no thanks".

Looks more like he has devoted his life to making a buck. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but he's not exactly a philanthropist.

Name one person, just *one*, who actually has one in his shop. I may have missed it, but I haven't seen any evidence so far that they have yet shipped any product to customers.

My money is on "zero". The guy's a lawyer, for pete's sake, and the United States isn't exactly overrun with starving lawyers.

You probably lose that bet too.

Granted...
Keeping my fingers away from the freakin' blade is enough rotational cutting safety to keep me happy.

What "ridiculous conspiracy theories" are you referring to? I mean, besides "fought around every corner... by skeptical woodworkers" and "muscled by the manufacturers."
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Doug Miller wrote:

You might be surprised. I used to work with an engineer who had passed the bar--engineering paid better. I used to have a secretary who had passed the bar. A friend of mine is married to a graduate of Yale Law School who has successfully defended asbestos suits. He hasn't worked in about ten years. There was a time when everybody who could went to law school planning to get rich quick, with the result that lawyers became a glut on the market. Not saying that Gass is one of the starving ones, but "passed the bar" != "well off financially".

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--John
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wrote:

And "engineering paid better" != "had to borrow money to feed his family and keep the electricity on".
Which was my point, WRT ted harris's over-the-top bulls**t.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

But the guy who went to Yale, who I also mentioned, and who succesfully defends asbestos suits _is_ about to lose his house. His wife is supporting him working as a nurse, which given the state of her health is likely to kill her.

--
--John
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In typed:

Have you ever started your own business from nothing more than an idea, that no one has ever done ever in the entire history of the world?
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Ted Harris
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ted harris wrote:

Well, let's see, it took Steve Jobs less time to go from an idea to a billion-dollar corporation than it has taken this guy to go from an idea to an ad on web site. Maybe he should see if Jobs will consult <eg>.
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--John
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Maybe the drug companies should see Steve Jobs about speeding up development on some of the cures that they have been working on for decades. Some things simply take years to develop, some things take a blink of an eye.
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