well, it has control electronics, actuators capable of stopping the
blade fast and most importantly it requires a reingineering of the
machine to survive the forces generated. even in a production
environment this is gonna add a hundred dollars or so to a saw's
price. there *are* hundred dollar saws on the market.
Here is a direct quote from the FAQ page ont he sawstop website;
How much will a saw with the SawStop system cost?
We estimate that the retail price of a contractors saw will increase by
approximately $50-100 after a manufacturer retools to add the SawStop system
as original equipment.
No...actually more like the Automatic Braking System
included in many cars today.
It is a device which is added to the basic, perfectly workable
mechanism, which is designed to replace skill and ability on the part
of the driver with robotics.
I would not if I had to replace the wheels and tires on
the vehicle every time I hit them to the tune of several hundred
Yea...the end run that the company tried to make to FORCE us
to use this mechanism did not sit well with the consumers that would
be affected by it. However, I had issues with it beyond that, in
that I am part of the group that believes that it would bring an
illusion of safety, causing a decrease in attention and awareness
when using the tablesaw, and, therefore would actually increase the
likelihood that an accident would occur. The fact that the RESULTS
of that accident would be more painful to the wallet than to the
body is of little relevance to me, actually.
Beyond that, there are the issues of cost and reliability that
have yet to be answered in any serious fashion. I should note that
this device DOES have an override that will disable it for "special
cutting circumstances". Want to bet that some woodworkers would
find a way to turn it off permanently and...there is a good chance
that those are exactly the workers that would be taking chances,
working stupid, and, therefore more likely to get hurt? A friend
of mine has a drycleaning shop. The pants presser, which is a large
machine that calmps the pants between two, steam-heated platens to
press out the wrinkles, has a safety interlock requiring the user
to have their hands on separate switches, out of the way, before the
machine will close. The last time one of his workers got burned by
this bad boy (and having your hand clamped in this thing, with
the 250 degree temps and steam is NOT a happy thing), it turned
out that (against company policy) the worker had used some cardboard
to jam one of the safety switches, so they could just step on the
close pedal, while arranging the pants with one hand.
Assuming that this thing will work perfectly EVERY time,
no matter how old the saw is, or how it has been used, there have
been no real data presented on how often it will trigger at the
WRONG time. I suspect that the probability of it hitting a false
positive and destroying the blade will go up as the electronics
The bottom line is that using a tablesaw is a dangerous
thing to do. I want myself and everyone that DOES use it to
maintain a cautious nervousness around it, and, not get lulled
into a false sense of security. That sense of security is
exactly what ends up with folks in trouble.
Yeah, and I use my powermatic 66 and my grizzly 1023Z every single day, bar
none. And I would love to know that if I had an accident and stuck my hand
into the blade that I would be even more protected than I am now. Knowing
this will not make me lackadaisical at all. It is simply another safety
measure. I mean really, it is a no brainer.
You want some real fun, pump the brakes on an ABS equipped vehicle.
Been there, done that, got the skid marks to prove it.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston
Are you claiming that you can brake better in bad conditions than ABS
can? Can you describe specifically what condition you believe this
to be true for?
My biggest problem with the SawStop folks is that they continue
to not sell something that they also want to force everyone to use,
while locking others out from making it. That and I'm not convinced
Is that what they actually done? My understanding is that they've tried
to license the technology, and no one was interested (the reason for
that could be a long topic in itself). That's hardly keeping others from
making it. Yes, the thing is patented up the wazoo, but I assume that
most people here believe in capitalism and the right of an inventor to
make money on an invention.
As far as forcing everyone to use it, they demonstrated that the
technology exists and asked for legislation to make such a safety device
be mandatory on table saws. Assuming that such a law was passed, it
seems reasonable that the manufacturers of table saws could find
alternate methods of accomplishing the same thing. If you remember, the
auto companies claimed that they could not raise gas mileage on their
vehicles until they were told that they had to.
Whether it works or not, only time will tell. If you've seen the videos,
they are very compelling. Going back to the auto industry, there were a
lot of doubters about air bags when they were first introduced, but
their reliability has been remarkably good, and there are a lot of
people walking around today who would be dead or crippled without them.
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:52:46 -0700, Charles Spitzer
I've been an EMT for about a dozen years. I have seen a lot more people
hurt very very badly by running into dashboards, windshields, all sorts of
other hard/sharp/non-moving stuff in a car, that they wouldn't have hit
if they had their belt on and had an airbag been between them and what
they hit. The statistics of airbag-related injuries show it's a _very_ small
amount compared to the injuries they prevent.
How do they help sell cars? They're required. At least some sort of
passive restraint system is required, and I don't think anyone likes the
seat belts that wrap themselves around you automatically.
I'm not in favor of requiring safety equipment that hasn't been proven.
Nor am I in favor of writing a requirement such that only one company
can supply it if there are alternative choices, whether it's SawStop or
Halliburton. I'm just saying that I don't think the SawStop people are
bad, based on what they've done so far.
They haven't done _shit_ so far, but produce a demo that we've all seen
and promise that they're shipping "real soon now", while lobbying to have
their nonexistant vaporware made mandatory by law. I see this as a
pretty deep hole for them to dig out of before I'd consider buying
I'm sorry that I gave that impression. My point was supposed to be that
mandatory safety equipment is not inherently bad. I also assumed that it
was a given that it should be proven to work before being required.
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