Sawstop - probably a stupid question

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"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Yeah there is ... it's called "manufacturer's liability insurance".
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How much is the maunfacturer's per-unit liability insurance ?
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"GregP" wrote in message

How many units?
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30,000
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"GregP" wrote in message

Sawstop? ... you're dreaming.
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:55:46 GMT, "Mike Marlow"

well, it has control electronics, actuators capable of stopping the blade fast and most importantly it requires a reingineering of the machine to survive the forces generated. even in a production environment this is gonna add a hundred dollars or so to a saw's price. there *are* hundred dollar saws on the market.
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In typed:

Here is a direct quote from the FAQ page ont he sawstop website; http://www.sawstop.com/faq.htm#1
How much will a saw with the SawStop system cost? We estimate that the retail price of a contractors saw will increase by approximately $50-100 after a manufacturer retools to add the SawStop system as original equipment.
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    Greetings and Salutations...

included in many cars today.     It is a device which is added to the basic, perfectly workable mechanism, which is designed to replace skill and ability on the part of the driver with robotics.

the vehicle every time I hit them to the tune of several hundred dollars.

to use this mechanism did not sit well with the consumers that would be affected by it. However, I had issues with it beyond that, in that I am part of the group that believes that it would bring an illusion of safety, causing a decrease in attention and awareness when using the tablesaw, and, therefore would actually increase the likelihood that an accident would occur. The fact that the RESULTS of that accident would be more painful to the wallet than to the body is of little relevance to me, actually.     Beyond that, there are the issues of cost and reliability that have yet to be answered in any serious fashion. I should note that this device DOES have an override that will disable it for "special cutting circumstances". Want to bet that some woodworkers would find a way to turn it off permanently and...there is a good chance that those are exactly the workers that would be taking chances, working stupid, and, therefore more likely to get hurt? A friend of mine has a drycleaning shop. The pants presser, which is a large machine that calmps the pants between two, steam-heated platens to press out the wrinkles, has a safety interlock requiring the user to have their hands on separate switches, out of the way, before the machine will close. The last time one of his workers got burned by this bad boy (and having your hand clamped in this thing, with the 250 degree temps and steam is NOT a happy thing), it turned out that (against company policy) the worker had used some cardboard to jam one of the safety switches, so they could just step on the close pedal, while arranging the pants with one hand.     Assuming that this thing will work perfectly EVERY time, no matter how old the saw is, or how it has been used, there have been no real data presented on how often it will trigger at the WRONG time. I suspect that the probability of it hitting a false positive and destroying the blade will go up as the electronics age...     The bottom line is that using a tablesaw is a dangerous thing to do. I want myself and everyone that DOES use it to maintain a cautious nervousness around it, and, not get lulled into a false sense of security. That sense of security is exactly what ends up with folks in trouble.     Regards     Dave Mundt
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In typed:

Yeah, and I use my powermatic 66 and my grizzly 1023Z every single day, bar none. And I would love to know that if I had an accident and stuck my hand into the blade that I would be even more protected than I am now. Knowing this will not make me lackadaisical at all. It is simply another safety measure. I mean really, it is a no brainer.
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Dave Mundt writes:

You want some real fun, pump the brakes on an ABS equipped vehicle.
Been there, done that, got the skid marks to prove it.
Charlie Self "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston Churchill
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Are you claiming that you can brake better in bad conditions than ABS can? Can you describe specifically what condition you believe this to be true for?

My biggest problem with the SawStop folks is that they continue to not sell something that they also want to force everyone to use, while locking others out from making it. That and I'm not convinced it'll work.
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Is that what they actually done? My understanding is that they've tried to license the technology, and no one was interested (the reason for that could be a long topic in itself). That's hardly keeping others from making it. Yes, the thing is patented up the wazoo, but I assume that most people here believe in capitalism and the right of an inventor to make money on an invention.
As far as forcing everyone to use it, they demonstrated that the technology exists and asked for legislation to make such a safety device be mandatory on table saws. Assuming that such a law was passed, it seems reasonable that the manufacturers of table saws could find alternate methods of accomplishing the same thing. If you remember, the auto companies claimed that they could not raise gas mileage on their vehicles until they were told that they had to.
Whether it works or not, only time will tell. If you've seen the videos, they are very compelling. Going back to the auto industry, there were a lot of doubters about air bags when they were first introduced, but their reliability has been remarkably good, and there are a lot of people walking around today who would be dead or crippled without them.
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wrote:

and a whole bunch of (usually) kids killed by them.

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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:52:46 -0700, Charles Spitzer

I've been an EMT for about a dozen years. I have seen a lot more people hurt very very badly by running into dashboards, windshields, all sorts of other hard/sharp/non-moving stuff in a car, that they wouldn't have hit if they had their belt on and had an airbag been between them and what they hit. The statistics of airbag-related injuries show it's a _very_ small amount compared to the injuries they prevent.
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Well a lot of kids but in reality more kids are saved than with out the air bags. With out air bags more kids would be killed. Even the Flu shot kills some people.
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"Hank Gillette" < snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hankgillette-

> As far as forcing everyone to use it, they demonstrated that the
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wrote:

How do they help sell cars? They're required. At least some sort of passive restraint system is required, and I don't think anyone likes the seat belts that wrap themselves around you automatically.
I'm not in favor of requiring safety equipment that hasn't been proven. Nor am I in favor of writing a requirement such that only one company can supply it if there are alternative choices, whether it's SawStop or Halliburton. I'm just saying that I don't think the SawStop people are bad, based on what they've done so far.
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No they're not.

Ah, there you go.

Hence, airbags help sell cars.

You're not? You seemed to be before.

They haven't done _shit_ so far, but produce a demo that we've all seen and promise that they're shipping "real soon now", while lobbying to have their nonexistant vaporware made mandatory by law. I see this as a pretty deep hole for them to dig out of before I'd consider buying their non-product.
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I'm sorry that I gave that impression. My point was supposed to be that mandatory safety equipment is not inherently bad. I also assumed that it was a given that it should be proven to work before being required.
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Then how do you reconcile this with supporting the Sawstop non-product folks?
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