Did you ever study statistics? A sample size of one is statistically not valid when compared to the millions of saws out there. . .
There seems to be an inabilty to link cause and effect here. . .
I have insurance but insurance to to protect against losses you cannot afford to pay for yourself - it is not to make one "whole".
You logic is slipping here - All new tablesaws come with guards. I needed a table saw so I bought one. My decision to buy was not based on the type of guard it had on it nor the fact that the government required it have one.
You fail to connect the dots here. Your idea of a nanny government is not workable. It is impossible to reduce the possibility of injury to 0% even with a Sawstop since statistics indicate that at some point in time it will fail to operate properly. As I stated previously intelligent proper use of a TS will minimize risk to acceptable levels.
Do you read English? What does practicing medicine have to do with traffic accidents and drinking and driving?
You are free to buy a Sawstop if you want one - I choose not to. When you start telling the government to require it on all saws I will fight it tooth and nail since it is stupid.
So you either work for Sawstop or you own stock???
You seem to be a bit naive in how business works and legal contracts are made. . .
NO manufacturer has done a deal with them period. Why not? It is simply not going to do anything but kill sales to suddenly add $300-400 to the price of an already expensive piece of equipment. . .
The government not setting the price is not the same as actual deregulation. The government regulates electricity: you can't buy it on the free market, because the government dictates who may run wires to your house, who can generate electricity, who can put lines on the the poles, etc.
Government involvement causes that 50% increase, and more.
The government requiring it on all saws. . . The device seems to work so I have no problems with it just those who take the position the government should require it on all saws. . .
The city government did regulate the price of electricity and we could only buy the electricity from one place. With deregulation, we can buy from any where "in" Texas. Our electricity rates went up 50% with deregulation.
Have you been fighting this already? It appears tha the government might require it.
Anouter uninformed assumption.
I do not claim to know all and cannot always accurately predict the future.
Wrong again. The Sawstop is being manufactured for SawStop. If every one is required to use a similar safety device sales will likely not be killed. Did the public quit buying gasoline when it wert up 50%?
In college 33 years ago. If you think that I am the only case you are sadily mistaken.
Apparently and you still don't seem to get it.
Changing you mind again? Having insurance sure sounds like you are afraid of what migh thappen to me.
Well then you should not have a problem with a better safety device if it becomes mandated since the guard that came on your saw was later added as standard like a better device may become standard.
You seem to know left and right pretty well do you understand in between?
Let me quote you here, I refuse to allow the government to tell me what kind of table saw I can buy - there are much more dangerous things they do little about - cancer caused by tobacco
I read that as you think the government is not doing enough about cancer caused by tobacco. What more do you want them to do? Why can't I express my openion about the SawStop while you tbelieve that the government should be doing more to cure cancer.
You said, Now I don't care how many are made, the cost of the sawstop will never get below a lowend tablesaw cost and the structure required to simply put this type of feature on a saw is way beyond the structure of a benchtop saw.
The same can happen with the SawStop device. Who would have dreamed there would be $100 table saws these days? Comnpetition does wonders for pricing.
SNIP
You say tomato I say tomatto. You do not down size because you finances are doing well. I'd say that Shopsmith is in trouble unless they start selling more. You have to change with the times or be left behind.
I am not against
I respect you opinion even if it differs from mine.
Only because of idiots like you that want to involve the government in everything . . . gee let me guess a Democrat perchance?
You have been advocating it from the get go. . . You fail to understand the economics of how requiring it would be expense for saw owners and new buyers (I doubt the lower insurance would even come close to covering the added equipment cost)
You seem to like comparing apples to oranges - for most folks saws are an OPTIONAL item - driving a car is not.
Huh? Time for a reality check here - I never changed my mind - you seem incapable of understanding plain English.
Insurance is for risk mitigation not elimination -
If the government mandated that all makers use Sawstops then the company would suddenly become very rich since it holds the sole patent for such devices. Their royalty pricing is onerous to say the least. Low end saws would disappear and prices for all saws would rise by LARGE amounts. As a result a few fingers might be saved. . . Well yes sign me up since I love to pay for the stuipidity of others. . . I think not. . .
Sorry your logic is failing again - the guard I removed on my saw probably cost about $10-15 and did not impact the overall price very much unlike what mandating the SS would do.
Yes I do but it is obivious that you do not. . .
Sigh - you are living proof of why some people should not be allowed near power tools. What I said was "why should the government worry about a few missing digits when people are dying from their inaction in other areas."
You are free to express your opinion about how wonderful SawStop is - I am not trying to stop you. I have not trashed the product. From what I have read it seems to work but I do question their onerous royalty pricing structure.
A government mandate to install them on all saws would not work from a practical or economical point and your continued instance that they should is illogical and incorrect.
People didn't stop buying gasoline but they bought less of it. In the case of gasoline the suppliers are selling less but making _more_ money. In the case of saws with saw stops, the manufacturers will be selling fewer saws and making _less_ money.
While I'm posting, I might as well add...
Air bags do save lives. However, a 6 point safety harness and a crash helmet for each driver and passenger would cost less than equipping a car with air bags and save even more lives. Perhaps the government should require it.
Just think how much safer a motorcycle would be... If it had 2 more wheels! Perhaps the government should require it.
Does anyone know if a sawstop saw can run a dado blade?
Driving at 55mph would save more lives than allowing higher speeds. It would not be difficult with today's electronic engine controls to govern the top speed of a car and limit it to 55. Perhaps the government should require it.
A swimming pool that was, say, 4 feet max depth would no doubt be safer than a pool that had a max depth of 12 feet. The 4 foot pool would save lives. Perhaps the government should require it.
If you wanted to buy from me, I could not plug my generator into the grid near Texarkana, and then get paid by you.
You can only buy from certain electricity producers. And every one of those producers is heavily regulated. The only thing that stopped, was the city setting the price of electricity. That is *not* deregulation.
We got a down check once on a safety inspection here for not have a written start-up procedure for a power tool..... a cordless drill.
We also didn't have a published "Hot work" (welding etc) policy... despite not doing any hot work.
IMHO - one of the biggest safety risks is government regulations that turn safety into a joke (which it isn't). Safety is at risk when people lose respect for the rules, or the process. The nature of regulation (and liability) is to cater to the lowest common denominator, and that isn't going to change.
Cheers -
Rob
(working where a band-aid has to be "dispensed" by trained staff)
OK, correct I was not exactly correct in how I stated who I can buy from in Texas. The shame of it all and certainly the reason that prices have gone up instead of down is that Texans cannot buy electricity from any where but Texas. Apparently Texas is unique in that it is not connected to the grid outside of Texas.
Probably true. But if you lived in Houston that would be hard to prove. LOL.. I think more people are speeding since the price of gasoline went up and the stations certainly are still busy.
Maybe, there is the possibility that pricing may deter some from buying however there may be some that were reluctant to switch from a BS because it safer to operate for some cutting operations than a TS. If the TS suddenly removes a lot of risk TS sales may in fact increase. The Minimax instructor told me that he only used the TS when the BS could not make the cut and stated safety reasons. Not that this particular reasoning would play out but it certainly is a posibility.
Perhaps. If you are into organized racing, it is required although not by the government.
Aw, well then it would not technically be a motorcycle any more.
Yes, It can.
Well, in a way the government has been requiring a vehivle to not go over 55 in certain areas for years, are you against driving the speed limit?
Well a person can drown in 6" of water, might as well go for that. Additionally the government does require secure fencing around a pool in some areas regardless of pool depth.
With anything you can take everything to an extreme. IMHO, of all the government regulated situations, many of which I agree with and many I do not, I think that making the SawStop technology mandatory would not be a bad thing. Plain and simple. You may have valid reasons for the opposite position. We disagree, on this subject. NO big deal. Freedom of speech right? I have that right, you have that right, although you may not like that because the government has its nose in protecting our freedom of speech also.
On a different note, the city government in Houston has recently started using traffic cameras to monitor and take pictures of vehicles running red lights. It is about a 50/50 mix as to whether you are for it or whether you are against it. Most against it are claiming, invasion of privacy, that it is just another way of generation more revenue for the city, higher taxes to get the system up and running, some one else may be driving my car when the car runs a red light, and the list goes on. At first I was against it. Now I am all for it considering that if it can help prevent 4 to 5 cars from running the light almost every time the light changes to red in many locations, it will probably save lives. I had to stop thinking about how it would just affect me. While many people are clueless how many TS accidents that there actually are, one test intersection in Houston recorded more than
600 violations the first month that the camera was in operation and those were only the ones that the camera caught. I suspect that it may only be capable of catching 1 at a time and may miss the other 3 or 4 that were behind the lead car.
IMHO the cameras are good as they may very well save my life one day and auto insurance premiums in Harris county may go down as a result of fewer accidents caused by motorists running red lights. There is a reason that Houston has higher auto insurance rates than most anywhere else and even if you do not live in the area, if you use the same auto insurance company you are indeed paying higher rates than necessary because of the amount of accidents every day in Houston. Do you recall people complaining about homeowners insurance rates and flood insurance rates and taxes going up to cover damage caused by Katrina even though they live no where near the coast and have had no claims?
driving a car is an option. I could just as easily ride my bike, walk, or go back to horse and buggy(well maybe not so easy on the last one). I still know people that don't drive cars.
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