Sawstop delivered!

[Leon]

HUH? The saw does not have to be turnrd on for the blade to be spinning. I was injured after turning the saw off and before the blade coasted down to a stop. In this instance the SawStop would have prevented my injury.

The point of what? Having a motion detector? If that is what you are talking about, the motion detector to detect the spinning blade would enable the system. If no "predetermined" minimum speed is detected by the motion detector the system would be disabled. This would prevent the system from tripping when changing blades or turning the blade by hand.

Now you would be creating a substantial

I suspect this is already built in for the purpose stated above and a motion decector or speed sensor would be inexpensive. Almost every automobile has a speed sensor at the crankshaft to determine timing. Same thing could be used here. A magnet and a sensor.

No safety

Exactly but the more safety you have built in, the less likely you or I or any one else will be injured. And don't even think that you are 100% not lazy or stupid when operating any equipment 100% of the time. You are probably human like every one else and are not capable of not making a mistake.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The blade may still be moving with the power off. Keep your eye on the blade next time you hit the switch. From what I've read, lots of people get injured by saw blades running unpowered.

[Leon]

Never have had a bad accident have you?

[TBone]

Your paying attention to what you were doing at the time probably would have as well and I bet you never made that same mistake again. I don't know what happened to you but if you were already in a position to stop the saw, it seems likely that you could have avoided it.

That is far more difficult than you give it credit for. Where exactly do you intend to mount this detector and what is going to power it after you shut the power to the was off. At best, I would put a 5 to 10 second delay in it's shutdown to give the blade time to stop which would serve your purpose and cost much less.

Where exactly do you intend to mount either the magnet or the sensor? And even then, they will still do nothing without the monitering and logic circuits the use them.

I disagree with this. I have come to find that when something has too much safety equipment on it, the users lose respect for it and simply begin to use it more dangerously. I did notice that in a past thread someone sade the claim that statistics show less injuries on a RAS than on table saws and I would bet that that spinning blade above the table makes the user VERY aware of what they are working with.

I never made that claim and have been injured, sometimes do to being stupid but I seldom make the same mistake twice.

[TBone]

True, but if you shut the saw down, then you really need to continue to pay attention until it stops because if you shut it off, you are obviously done with your cut.

[J. Clarke]

The questions are (a) does it trip and cost you 50 bucks and a new blade if you touch the blade while the blade is not turning and (b) does it fail to trip and let you get cut if the power is turned off but the blade has not stopped spinning.

While it is inconcievable to me that anyone would try to market such a thing without making provisions for the two conditions mentioned above, I have see manufactureres do enough really stupid things to agree that these are legitimate questions.

I distinctly recall a post in which someone did describe what happens in those situations based on his personal experience either with a delivered saw or a prototype, but now I can't find the post. Something about there being a green light that is on whenever it is armed, which included a certain period of time after power-off, and when the light goes out then you can touch the blade without triggering. Trouble is I may very well have dreamed it.

[Leon]

Actually I make the same miustke again about 9 months later and realized that this is how I must have been injured. Fortunately or not, I did not have as much thumb hanging down as it is half gone now and did not repeat the trip to the ER. Believe me when you are injured like this you may or may not remember what happened exactly. For days I thought it was kick back only to realize no wood was damaged. This makes it hard to prevent a freak accident.

Not really.

Where exactly do you intend to mount this detector and what is going to power it after you

The dectctor can be mounted to the trunion and monitor the arbor pully or shaft. The crank shaft saensor on many car engines is simply a closely mounted sensor, "about the size of a small cigarette lighter", counting the times a magnetic spot on the harmonic balancer passed by it in a given amount of time. The saw always has power, just not always going to the motor. The sensor could be energised from the live side of the on off switch.

From what I understand the SawStop has these capabilities and I was simply explaining one of the possible way that this can be accomplished. I am not saying that this is in fact how it was accomplished but simply how it could be done.

Again, the magnet could be a 1/4" long pencil lead sized object imbedded in a small drilled hole on the end of the arbor. The sensor coud be mounted close to the end of the arbor. As far as the logic and circuits, that stuff is cheap and mass produced. Many battery operated drills have this circuitery to maintain speed when a load is applied to the drill.

[Leon]

True. But, hind site is 20/20 and there are countless ways of having a an accident and you simply cannot anticipate every scenario that is possible.

[Vic Baron]

yup - but I don't tremble in fear of it happening again. Life goes on. Get over it and get off the soap box - you do more harm than good with your 'tude.

[rcook5]

As I understand it from the material I posted here, if the blade is moving the device is active. Once the blade stops, the device is off.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets fly with a club. -- John W. Cambell Jr.

[Charlie Self]

TBone signs:

No, but you get one helluva chance to make a great impression on a wheat field.

Charlie Self "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell

[Leon]

I am on no soap box. Any you "tude" is one of ignorance.

[Paul Kierstead]

You are not, indeed; you seem pretty reasonable to me. I am entirely baffled how people can get their panties in such a knot over the invention of a tablesaw safety device or -- for that matter -- the fact the company has been slow getting it to market. You would think it was a massive insult to them or something. What is the deal here? Sheesh, they must be homicidal about seatbelts. I can't imagine how much they froth at the mouth about anti-lock brakes, hearing protection or -- god help us -- eye protection.

PK

[Leon]

From the response directly from SawStop, A. Speculation here, (a) it will not trip when the blade is not turning. It would be tough to change blades with out tripping it. (b) if it did trip it is likely that neither the blade or cartridge would be damaged. IMHO damage would be the result of stopping a blade spinning at 3600 rpm in 1/8 th of a revolution.

B. No Speculation, the device will trip or trigger if the blade is spinning even after the saw was turned off.

[Vic Baron]

Considering in a prior post you mentioned having a second accident - yes I'm ignorant of the fact that someone could be dumb enough to make the same mistake twice. You'd BETTER get the SawStop - sounds like YOU need it, lefty. Better still - wanna sell your table saw?

You missed the point completely, as you have with several of your posts. Let's just let it go and say that you really,really like the SawStop and I find it a non essential add-on. Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the company or it's representatives.

Sheesh!

[Leon]

I am not so sure that many are so much against the idea of the safety devise so much as their impressions of the company when the company looked to the government to mandate the use of this or a similar device to be used on all new table saws. I am also against the government getting involved with our lives any more than necessary. However not all that the government does is bad for us. IMHO this safety device is a good idea and I would much rather see this device than the one that comes on the saw now and gets thrown away before assembly most of the time. Many people form an opinion and neither hell or high water will change their minds. ;~) For those people that have been seriously injured and still have ill feelings for this device I can respect their feelings. They have been there and know that it is possible, even for them. For those that feel that harm will never come to them because they always pay close attention, use proper tool technique, are way too smart to let an accident happen, or are way too careful to let an accident happen, I can only say that given enough time your time will come. I was one of those people that felt that way and all my friends and relatives could not believe that of all people it happened to me. I have been down that path and know better now.

[Leon]

No, I did not say I had a second accident. I stated that I made the same mistake again. No harm done.

- yes I'm ignorant of the fact that someone could be dumb enough to make the same

You bet I will sell it. It is yours for $2800. U.S It is a 4 year old Jet cabinet saw, I'll throw in the WWII blade, mobile base and 15 roller outfeed table.

What point exactly? I am simply not judging a book by its cover or playing pile on the under dog.

That would be your assumption. I really have no reason to like the SawStop nor any reason not to like it as I have no hands on experience with it and neither do you I suspect. But I will not damn the product because of the way it is brought to market. The company is absolutely working within its rights.

and I

Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the

No kidding....

[Rich]

Can this thread just die? I'm kind of new here but this has gone on for way to long. There are two camps one that wants to idiot proof something that has never been idiot proofed before and the other that thinks that it doesn't need to be idiot proofed (I'm in that group). It seems to be like arguing religion with someone of a different faith, neither will win!

Just my $.02 worth..

[Dave Hinz]

Seriously, Paul, my problem with them is that it seems to be all show and no deliver, _and_, while it's still not a real product, they are trying to have the government force it on everyone. It'd be different if it was a real product with a proven track record.

Ah, but all of those (a) exist, and (b) work.

Dave Hinz

[Dave Hinz]

Pretty sure that with "outlook express" you can set it to ignore by thread, or by sender. Should be a way to ignore any thread with the word "sawstop" in the subject: line, for instance.

If that doesn't give you the option, Forte Agent is a damn fine newsreader for Windows users; there's even a free version.

Dave Hinz