As testified to by the fact that in the vast majority of racing accidents - even the really brutal ones, the driver never stops driving the car until it comes to rest. Imagine doing that while wrapped in a nylon cocoon.
And you sir are a what? It would be poor form in an argument to call the ones you are arguing with names, while at the same time those same names could be applied to you.
Race drivers _use_ their restraints--they get disqualified if they don't.
I don't have to sit on an exploding H-bomb to know that it's not a good idea. Some things "haven't been done before" because they don't work.
As are you. The difference is that you give every evidence of being totally clueless with regard to racing.
Gosh, I don't know, genius...because 90% of people wouldn't use them? What is the rate of use in stock car racing? I'm guessing it's right around
100%. If passenger cars were equipped with 5-point restraints and people used them 100% in conjunction with a HANS device, you could throw air bags away.I see. What race team do you work for? Is your opinion more experienced than mine?
todd
The closest I've been to racing is watching the Molson Indianapolis in Toronto the past few years. A number of years ago, I regularly attended the races up in Mosport and looked at it as a weekend of being with friends while camping out in the infield.
If those two things don't qualify for watching racing, label me however you want, but it still doesn't change you quarterback wizards from being exactly that and nothing more.
Uh, Doug? How many G's, in what direction, are needed to set off an airbag in a passenger car? How often does that happen in racing? You'll only see that if you hit something stationary, or going a drastically different direction.
You might want to hang onto it for a bit. Airbags are only going to go off with enough force _and_ with that force in the right direction. The damage to vehicles I've seen in racing, just from normal non-crash driving, isn't anything like what I've seen as an EMT on scenes where there have been airbags which deployed. Takes a lot of impact to set those off. Obviously it'd be tweaked accordingly.
That having been said, the HANS device hasn't caught on real well, or there'd still be a #3 car driving around. If a .5 ounce safety device isn't being used, a 1 pound airbag hasn't got a chance.
Hey, I'd go. Providing they got rid of all that noise, the fumes and the beer. It would be better each brand of car had the same color paint. It would make for a much better experience. ;)
Haw! Now that's funny.
Practicality aside, is it needed? With the restraint systems the driver wear, it may eliminate the need for air bags. I don't know the answer but if you don't hit the steering wheel or dash you don't need the bag.
On the road, seat belt use is in the 40% to 50% range IIRC, on the track it is 100% of a much more sophisticated system.. If granny won't wear a lap belt on the way to the liquor store, doubt she will don a helmet and 5 point restraint system. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net
air bags are cheaper.
really.
yep. that's us, a bunch of non-critical-thinking kneejerk reactionaries......
this is a woodworking group. try asking in a racing group or an engineering group. how about you go do both. when you have a consensus that airbags in race cars are a good idea, come back and let's talk.
I actually don't think it's a matter of whether or not they would deploy in the bumping around on the racetrack. I believe it's more of a matter of it not being necessary. With the use of the 5-point harness and head and neck restraint, I suspect the addition of an air bag would add very little to overall safety. By the way, head and neck restraint devices have been mandatory since October 2001 in NASCAR, so I'd say they've "caught on" pretty well. I've looked and can't find a race death in NASCAR since then. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't seem to find it if it has.
todd
thread. The figures on seat belt use are 79% now which is up from 61% in
1997.todd
HANS type devices have caught on very well. Dale Earnhardt didn't wear one and neither did the other 42 drivers that day. Since his death though, they have become mandatory. I'd say that's catching on pretty well. Shame they had to become mandatory and under those circumstances, but at least everyone is wearing them now.
Todd Fatheree responds:
I wonder how they check those figures. Is it just the routine of traffic stops, counting how many of those stopped have belts hooked up. WV kept saying it had
87+% compliance in certain areas, while the previous week or month was supposed to have been 85% or 89%. In 2-1/2 years there, I was never once stopped, in town or out, by a cop while driving, yet the counts were always there. Sampling works, or so the samplers tell us, but...how do they sample this particular situation?Charlie Self "It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man." H. L. Mencken
I wonder how they check those figures. Is it just the routine of traffic stops,
It's probably pretty easy for a cop to see if a belt is across the shoulder or not. I can't imagine too many people bothering to put the shoulder part across, but not fasten the belt.
Zero tolerance law? Blind obedience?
Oh yes, the five-point works only in conjunction with the roll cage and a seat that can't compress the driver against the airbag (wheel) on deceleration. I'd say think about it, but I'm sure you won't, or can't.
Feel better now? Don't hold back George, it's early in the morning. Let it ALL out.
Upscale responds:
I don't think so. With the newer height adjustable shoulder belts, they're nearly invisible from outside on many cars.
Too, where would he get a count on which to base his 100%-85% figures?
If it's just an eyeball check of whatever comes by with a guesstimate of the 2 totals, it's exactly the same stuff that falls behind the male bovine.
Charlie Self "It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man." H. L. Mencken
Could be. Only thing I know is that a good friend of mine was a cop (sergeant) and he continually noticed obscure things that I'd never have seen if he didn't point them out to me. My only guess is that his job and the training he'd received forced him to see things most people would miss.
It doesn't take an engineer realize the complexity of the situation.
What we expect a bag to do:
1) Deploy at such a rate as to cover a certain distance in less time than it takes the driver to meet it. 2) Upon reaching the point of maximum deployment, so as not to become the equivalent of a fixed object,begin deflating at a rate sufficient to cushion the driver or occupant.It's Newtonian physics all the way, so your HS stuff should work, but in case you require a review
I'm not going to run down the numbers, but the basic bag is designed to protect a certain mass traveling at a certain velocity over a fixed distance less than the distance to the wheel, but greater than that required to absorb the deceleration as it deflates. You can get a review of the difficulties at
A quick non-engineer assessment says that 150 versus 50 mph makes the problem about nine times as complex. And they're still trying to solve the
Buckle up, so I don't have to lift your carcass out of a PIA in my county. When so many bones are broken, handling a body is like trying to control jell-o.
NOW I feel better.
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