Sawstop Cabinet Saw

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On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:41:05 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:

Actually, if I recall correctly their intention was to have one of their stops on just about every power tool in the shop, not just the table saw.

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--John
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So your philosophy is NO safety features until they're available for EVERYTHING?
Sawstop is undoubtedly working on making the technology work with other machine tools too.
Robatoy wrote:

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Then you made a poor assumption and an unsafe decision to leave the cutoff there. That's something that is completely within your control though and thinking safety first might have told you that there was a kickback possibility and you should move the cutoff completely away from the blade, moving or not.
That's why some of us aren't worried about a tablesaw chasing us down and causing us bodily harm, we consider the possibilities carefully and don't take any chances to begin with.
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How is it that you're so perfect and have never ever hurt yourself? Can I have some of that dope you're smoking? I'd like to feel omnipotent too.
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wrote:

You know, it's sad that some people are so flawed that they take offense to others who actually know how to be careful. Sorry Upscale, not everyone is a clumsy dipshit like you.
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You misunderstand. I'm not taking offence at you knowing how to be careful. I'm ridiculing you for thinking that it's impossible for you to have an accident of some type and getting hurt. It means that it will happen to you, sooner than later.
Normally, I wouldn't like to see anyone hurt, but in your case when it happens to you, it will be most appropriate. And when it comes to perfection and never making an error, the only perfection you seem to have obtained is that of being the perfect asshole.
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careful.
you,
This is the aspect of these conversations that makes them so annoying. You are flat out wrong with this assertion. The field of woodworking is populated with more people who successfully made it through lifetimes of using tools without the dreaded injuries that you so adamantly promise. Safety is necessary - no one yet has suggested otherwise, but not every device out there is absolutely necessary to ensure against an inevitable incident. Sorry - contend all that you want but historical numbers are just simply against you. It is when you make ludicrous assertions like this that you do set yourself up for critical comment. Neither Brian nor anyone else has ever once suggested that it is impossible for them to have an accident of some type. This type of hyperbole does nothing to further your argument.

perfection
is
There you go again...
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-Mike-
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You
And you misunderstand completely what I'm saying. Brian is contending that he can't have any type of accident because he's too careful. Sorry, but life just doesn't work that way. Sure, someone being careful will definitely minimize the chances of something untoward happening. But, accidents do happen, even to the most careful person. Why do you think they're called accidents? It's unintentional, but it does happen. It's sheer arrogance (and essentially a really stupid statement) to say otherwise.

Hey, he calls me a dipshit, I feel perfectly entitled to respond in kind.
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I've got it! I'VE GOT IT!
The **** "USENET NEWSGROUP OFF-TOPIC STOP" ****
What time does the patent office open?
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - snipped-for-privacy@charm.net
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wrote:

Exactly. The overwhelming majority of woodworkers make it through life without losing a limb. Do we get scraped up, bang our fingers with hammers, get cut, bruised and bandaged? Of course, most of us do, but most of us never cut anything off of ourselves accidentally, especially those of us who actually know how to be careful, know what our tools can do and know how to take precautions to dramatically lessen the possibility of personal injury.

Some people want everyone else to take care of them, they're afraid of having personal responsibility for their own health, safety and wellbeing. Unfortunately, these people usually are the ones who want to mandate that everyone else do what they want as well. SawStop, as a company, is one of those groups and their apologists largely are as well. I've never said that the saw isn't well made, but for what I'd ever need, it's just not worth the pricetag and their faulty stopping technology just isn't necessary in my shop. I'll go on for another 40 years of woodworking without serious injury, without having some nanny company tell me I have to pay them to take care of me.
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"Brian Henderson" wrote in message

And of course, you're intimately familiar with SawStop and can say with absolute certainty that their technology is faulty. Why do you think I've been responding to you as I have? You've stated things that you really don't know for sure and made assertions that are impossible to verify. Whether you ever get a SawStop is your business and I couldn't really care less, but however you want to spin it, the technology has considerably value and there's nothing your fantasy statements can do to change that.
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wrote:

I never said it was impossible. Anything is possible. I'm saying that I'm careful enough that I don't have to worry about being seriously injured because I think ahead and don't make risky moves. It's funny, just about all the old woodworkers I know who have been doing this all their lives and still have never been seriously injured would laugh at you. Sure, it'll happen to them sooner or later, I guess it just means much, much, much, much later in their case.
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Then what did you mean when you wrote " In fact, I can pretty much guarantee I'd never trip the SS, at least not the way it's supposed to be tripped." ?

You may be right. I hope you are. But have you considered the consequences if you are not?
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Hell he made an unsafe decision to not have some one else cut the wood for him. He should have called you, I guess.

I guess you have your TS chained sown so that it will not chase you down and cause you bodily harm.
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On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:25:13 GMT, "Leon"

It barks at me from time to time, but it's generally well behaved.
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Well, that one sure got some action! And one guy has actually used one! I had no idea about the false stops, which could be an issue at $200 or so with a good blade. I'm gonna try to find one on display. Thanks, Wilson

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wrote:

If you did a search you might find that it's nowhere near $200 unless your blades are titanium. The poster who said that was as misinformed as the one on the 16th who said:

You're unlikely to be able to get one in your shop for less than $3K+.
But I've said too much...
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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Where are you guys finding "data" regarding false triggers ?? ?? ?? I've not been able to track down a single verified instance !! !! !!
BTW .. a replacement cartrige is $59.00 added to the cost of repair/replacement of whatever blade you were using when the device triggered. I triggered the device on two occasions where I worked .. both were demonstrations and intentional .. we were using a 40 tooth blade in the demo, and in each case, 3 teeth were embedded in the cartridge. 3-4 replaced teeth on a good blade should run less than $15 at most sharpening shops. Even if you are talking about replacing a Forrest blade .. I just ordered two from Amazon for $68.00 each. Now, let's take an imaginary trip to the Emergence Room and start adding up the $$$$$$$. FWIW .. in both instances, the blades were ATB grind, and you could easily tell from the damage that ONLY ONE TOOTH ever touched the hot dog.
I am also not aware of the "facts" surrounding the alleged attempt by the inventor to get the government to make his device a mandate. I've read several posts making some accusations of that, and feel that it is probably at least partially true. What I don't undersatnd is, what does a marketing blunder on his part have to do with keeping my fingers on my hands ?? I've read some posts declaring "I'd probably buy one IF he didn't try to blah, blah, blah" No matter WHAT HE DOES, I want to KEEP MY FINGERS.
YES .. $4,000 is a lot of money for a saw .. .. .. YES .. $100 or more to replace blade & cartridge sounds like a big investment .. .. .. YES .. the SAWSTOP is an excellent saw and a wonderfully designed saw even without the brake .. .. ..
oh yeah .. .. .. YES .. it WILL cost you in excess of $40,000 to have an amputated finger reattached, not to maention the paing, suffering, loss of work, loss of use of the appendage, etc.
The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.
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Do a Google Groups search -- at least one person has posted here, reporting a false trip of which he says he has first-hand knowledge.

[snip]
It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was discussed in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in fact petition the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting that their proprietary technology become mandated, and there was a post here that referenced the CPSC filing. This is not a wild unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination. It's a fact.
[snip]

How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device is to prevent *amputations*.
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Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Two words: Riving Knife
Now That item should be mandatory
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