Sawstop Cabinet Saw

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Yeah, I have to agree. All that time wasted because the business owner didn't think to have an extra part on hand. Who'd ever want to prepare themselves or their business in case of something like that? Just think of all that time wasted. It must be worse than an employee hurting themselves on the job and having to go for extended workman's comp. And it would certainly be more time wasted than having to hire a replacement employee and taking the time needed to train them to handle their job.
Of course, all that probably wouldn't happen because the injured employee would probably sue at some point and the business would likely be shut down because of legal costs, fantastically increased insurance premiums and the initial loss of business because of the injury.
But, there's a solution. The business can move lock, stock and barrel up to Canada. We're not so quick to jump into court and tie everything up for a considerable period. That is the purview of the US citizen. We have better things to do than support a growing army of personal injury lawyers. Up here, we like to feed them to the sled dogs and make a tidy profit selling tickets to the event.
However, I digress. We were talking about wasting time. Let me wrap things up by saying that it doesn't make any sense at all to invest in a relatively expensive tool for a business but neglect to factor in a few critical spare parts for when the employees take their lunch time hot dog and decide to test out the new machine.
:)
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wrote in message

Thankfully, that employee will now never be able to hurt themselves.

Yeah - it's just a real problem. We can't seem to keep businesses open because of the daily injuries and the resultant loss of production and inevitable legal fees. In another twelve days or so we won't have any more production wood shops left in the United States.

That's true but it's hard for Americans to adapt to holding that "We're better about everything" that Canadians are so well known for.

That's it. Keep a room full of spares on hand for those times that the machine misfires due to a yet unresolved design issue.
--

-Mike-
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Naturally, you own a SawStop and are closely familiar with all those unspoken and unresolved design issues. It's also obvious that you have master's degrees in mechanics, electronics and have attended Mr. Gass' business numerous times to evaluate said design issues.
If those things aren't true then the reverse must be true, that you have no experience with those unspoken design issues whatsoever and decided that you'd elucidate us with some verbal diarrhea.
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wrote in message

At times, you're entertaining. At other times, you make a complete ass of yourself.
--

-Mike-
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Hey, you're the one making statements about "unresolved design issues" without any factual evidence to back it up. With the verbal diarrhea you're spouting, it suggests that you're the real ass.
Realistically, there isn't any type of perfect machinery on this planet. If you'd said something like that then I'd agree with you fully, but that's not what you said is it? You just opened your mouth and spouted your unspoken suggestion that there was something that needs to be fixed with the SawStop. And, that leads me to say it again. You're full of crap.
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wrote in message news

Didn't one or a couple of earlier posters who own the saw post about misfires?
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-Mike-
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Yes, you're correct, which is why I mentioned that there isn't any type of perfect machinery on this planet. Nothing is absolutely perfect. That doesn't for one second suggest that the SawStop is a faulty product. All it means is that there's always going to be an exception to one working flawlessly under all conditions. As someone mentioned earlier, SawStop (for the time being anyway) is accepting the first fired cartridge from people and replacing it no charge. Apparently, they're using this process to investigate and evaluate the effectiveness of their saw out in the general public. Any company of merit is always looking to improve their product. That doesn't mean it's defective.
If you're really interested in information on the SawStop in actual use and the amount of activations, I'd suggest you query Robin Lee of Lee Valley Tools. Most if not all of the saws within Lee Valley Tools have been replaced with SawStops. I think LV has in excess of a dozen saws. I don't know if he will respond, but Robin should be able to give you an honest evaluation of LV's experience with activations, faulty or otherwise.
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wrote in message>

The original posts certainly did imply (to my eye) that these were true misfires. That's a design issue that has yet to be worked out, if that's the case. No need to be an applogist for Sawstop - it's just a matter of fact. Like all new products, things have to be worked out sometimes. My response was to your comment that the owner should invest in an inventory of spare items to protect against downtime incurred by something that really was not supposed to happen - a misfire. That's an appologist position. My comment was that it should not be the responsibility of the owner to inventory parts in anticipation of the thing firing when it should not. Nothing more than that. Do you buy a second set of tires for your car in anticipation of a tire failure?

I'm not interested. I think the saw looks to be a pretty good design from a number of perspectives and I think the stop mechanism will probably be de-bugged quickly enough, and will eventually be a pretty good machine. I think the cost is too high, but that's a very subjective statement. Again - my original comment to you was not addressing the saw, it was addressing your assertion that if the saw is still prone to mis-fires, then the owner should stock parts. My contention is that the manufacturer should assume the position of standing behind those mis-fire issues. Let them supply parts in anticipation of a mis-fire until they get the bugs worked out.
--

-Mike-
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Not a second set, just a spare tire on hand like most people. Consider that a flat tire effectively disables your car for anything approaching proper driving, then one can directly compare it to the SawStop. It makes perfect sense, especially for a business to have a spare cartridge on hand. Not cartridges as in tires, but at least one cartridge as in a single spare tire.
Consider the $3,000 cost for this saw and that many people will have bought it primarily for its safety features. 2% of that amount for a spare cartridge to maintain production sounds completely reasonable to me.
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I need to bring a center back to my point. I sort of wandered off with the set of tires thing. My only point is that *if* there is a problem with misfires, which is the impression that I have come away from this thread with, then it should not be incumbent upon the relatively few consumers to shoulder the cost of spare inventory as the manufacturer works out the kinks. Inventory in this scenario would be an ongoing purchase requirement, if I understand the issue correctly.
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-Mike-
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wrote:

That would work unless you have multiple faulty trips of the cartridge, just like I did a couple years ago with tires. I blew *3* brand new tires in a week, all on different wheels, because the batch was apparently faulty. They replaced them all, free of charge, plus reimbursed me for the towing costs.
These things do happen in the real world, you know.
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Yes, they do, and you're not the only one to have that particular misfortune. When I was about ten years old, we had a family vacation get off to a very bad start due to an apparently bad batch of tires that Dad had bought the week before. (Seemed like a good idea at the time, of course -- two-week trip coming up, tires are getting old, looks like a good time for new ones, right?) We had a tread separation and blowout... stopped and changed the tire, and continued down the highway, hoping to find a dealer in the next city who would replace the bad tire under warranty. Got about three miles down the road, and BANG! there went another one. No spare this time, of course. :-( Thank goodness for AAA.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Good saw, well made.
Have had no misfires, or injuries, and planning to keep it that way.
We do keep a spare cartridge on hand though...maybe the likelihood of misfire goes up if you don't? ;)
We do not use dado sets anymore - so no experience there....
Cheers -
Rob
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If I may ask prior to your adoption of sawstops what was your Tablesaw injury rate? Any rough approximation would suffice.....
Incidentally recently(a week or so) the Mrs. asked me what I wanted for my birthday and I presented her with a Lee Valley wish list.....she obliged and in less than a week the order showed up upon my doorstep....complete, nice stuff, well packed and timely....thanks Rod
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Even if they had no injuries prior, I'll bet they're saving a significant amount on insurance.
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

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And promoting customer Good Will.
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On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:22:47 +0000, Leon wrote:

I'm sorry, but how does using a Sawstop saw promote customer good will? Most customers neither know nor care what kind of tools you use as long as you can do the work.
--
--John
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wrote:

The subject business is Lee Valley, whose customers will be the ones using the saws. Personally I'd rather this thread contained more fact and less speculation, but at least that's the reason for what you see above.
--
Chuck Taylor
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snip

More fact! Less speculation! Are you trying to kill usenet?
PDX David :-)
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On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:52:23 -0800, Jane & David

Well, not any more, now that you've let the pushstick out of the bag. Sheesh. Thanks a lot, pal.
:-)
--
Chuck Taylor
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