Yeah, I have to agree. All that time wasted because the business owner
didn't think to have an extra part on hand. Who'd ever want to prepare
themselves or their business in case of something like that? Just think of
all that time wasted. It must be worse than an employee hurting themselves
on the job and having to go for extended workman's comp. And it would
certainly be more time wasted than having to hire a replacement employee and
taking the time needed to train them to handle their job.
Of course, all that probably wouldn't happen because the injured employee
would probably sue at some point and the business would likely be shut down
because of legal costs, fantastically increased insurance premiums and the
initial loss of business because of the injury.
But, there's a solution. The business can move lock, stock and barrel up to
Canada. We're not so quick to jump into court and tie everything up for a
considerable period. That is the purview of the US citizen. We have better
things to do than support a growing army of personal injury lawyers. Up
here, we like to feed them to the sled dogs and make a tidy profit selling
tickets to the event.
However, I digress. We were talking about wasting time. Let me wrap things
up by saying that it doesn't make any sense at all to invest in a relatively
expensive tool for a business but neglect to factor in a few critical spare
parts for when the employees take their lunch time hot dog and decide to
test out the new machine.
Thankfully, that employee will now never be able to hurt themselves.
Yeah - it's just a real problem. We can't seem to keep businesses open
because of the daily injuries and the resultant loss of production and
inevitable legal fees. In another twelve days or so we won't have any more
production wood shops left in the United States.
That's true but it's hard for Americans to adapt to holding that "We're
better about everything" that Canadians are so well known for.
That's it. Keep a room full of spares on hand for those times that the
machine misfires due to a yet unresolved design issue.
Naturally, you own a SawStop and are closely familiar with all those
unspoken and unresolved design issues. It's also obvious that you have
master's degrees in mechanics, electronics and have attended Mr. Gass'
business numerous times to evaluate said design issues.
If those things aren't true then the reverse must be true, that you have no
experience with those unspoken design issues whatsoever and decided that
you'd elucidate us with some verbal diarrhea.
Hey, you're the one making statements about "unresolved design issues"
without any factual evidence to back it up. With the verbal diarrhea you're
spouting, it suggests that you're the real ass.
Realistically, there isn't any type of perfect machinery on this planet. If
you'd said something like that then I'd agree with you fully, but that's not
what you said is it? You just opened your mouth and spouted your unspoken
suggestion that there was something that needs to be fixed with the SawStop.
And, that leads me to say it again. You're full of crap.
Yes, you're correct, which is why I mentioned that there isn't any type of
perfect machinery on this planet. Nothing is absolutely perfect. That
doesn't for one second suggest that the SawStop is a faulty product. All it
means is that there's always going to be an exception to one working
flawlessly under all conditions. As someone mentioned earlier, SawStop (for
the time being anyway) is accepting the first fired cartridge from people
and replacing it no charge. Apparently, they're using this process to
investigate and evaluate the effectiveness of their saw out in the general
public. Any company of merit is always looking to improve their product.
That doesn't mean it's defective.
If you're really interested in information on the SawStop in actual use and
the amount of activations, I'd suggest you query Robin Lee of Lee Valley
Tools. Most if not all of the saws within Lee Valley Tools have been
replaced with SawStops. I think LV has in excess of a dozen saws. I don't
know if he will respond, but Robin should be able to give you an honest
evaluation of LV's experience with activations, faulty or otherwise.
The original posts certainly did imply (to my eye) that these were true
misfires. That's a design issue that has yet to be worked out, if that's
the case. No need to be an applogist for Sawstop - it's just a matter of
fact. Like all new products, things have to be worked out sometimes. My
response was to your comment that the owner should invest in an inventory of
spare items to protect against downtime incurred by something that really
was not supposed to happen - a misfire. That's an appologist position. My
comment was that it should not be the responsibility of the owner to
inventory parts in anticipation of the thing firing when it should not.
Nothing more than that. Do you buy a second set of tires for your car in
anticipation of a tire failure?
I'm not interested. I think the saw looks to be a pretty good design from a
number of perspectives and I think the stop mechanism will probably be
de-bugged quickly enough, and will eventually be a pretty good machine. I
think the cost is too high, but that's a very subjective statement. Again -
my original comment to you was not addressing the saw, it was addressing
your assertion that if the saw is still prone to mis-fires, then the owner
should stock parts. My contention is that the manufacturer should assume
the position of standing behind those mis-fire issues. Let them supply
parts in anticipation of a mis-fire until they get the bugs worked out.
Not a second set, just a spare tire on hand like most people. Consider that
a flat tire effectively disables your car for anything approaching proper
driving, then one can directly compare it to the SawStop. It makes perfect
sense, especially for a business to have a spare cartridge on hand. Not
cartridges as in tires, but at least one cartridge as in a single spare
Consider the $3,000 cost for this saw and that many people will have bought
it primarily for its safety features. 2% of that amount for a spare
cartridge to maintain production sounds completely reasonable to me.
I need to bring a center back to my point. I sort of wandered off with the
set of tires thing. My only point is that *if* there is a problem with
misfires, which is the impression that I have come away from this thread
with, then it should not be incumbent upon the relatively few consumers to
shoulder the cost of spare inventory as the manufacturer works out the
kinks. Inventory in this scenario would be an ongoing purchase requirement,
if I understand the issue correctly.
That would work unless you have multiple faulty trips of the
cartridge, just like I did a couple years ago with tires. I blew *3*
brand new tires in a week, all on different wheels, because the batch
was apparently faulty. They replaced them all, free of charge, plus
reimbursed me for the towing costs.
These things do happen in the real world, you know.
Yes, they do, and you're not the only one to have that particular misfortune.
When I was about ten years old, we had a family vacation get off to a very bad
start due to an apparently bad batch of tires that Dad had bought the week
before. (Seemed like a good idea at the time, of course -- two-week trip
coming up, tires are getting old, looks like a good time for new ones, right?)
We had a tread separation and blowout... stopped and changed the tire, and
continued down the highway, hoping to find a dealer in the next city who would
replace the bad tire under warranty. Got about three miles down the road, and
BANG! there went another one. No spare this time, of course. :-( Thank
goodness for AAA.
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Good saw, well made.
Have had no misfires, or injuries, and planning to keep it that way.
We do keep a spare cartridge on hand though...maybe the likelihood of
misfire goes up if you don't? ;)
We do not use dado sets anymore - so no experience there....
If I may ask prior to your adoption of sawstops what was your Tablesaw
injury rate? Any rough approximation would suffice.....
Incidentally recently(a week or so) the Mrs. asked me what I wanted for my
birthday and I presented her with a Lee Valley wish list.....she obliged and
in less than a week the order showed up upon my doorstep....complete, nice
stuff, well packed and timely....thanks Rod
The subject business is Lee Valley, whose customers will be the ones
using the saws. Personally I'd rather this thread contained more fact
and less speculation, but at least that's the reason for what you see
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.