SawStop

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Really now. Would you prefer that one of the sales reps slides his hand into the blade? Will that satisfy you? Personally, I'm not rushing out to buy a Sawstop but it does seem like a very good idea. Just keep waiting, I'm sure we'll have real world data sometime soon if they're actually selling any of these.
--
Jeff P.

"A new study shows that licking the sweat off a frog
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Well, since the website _still_ says "SawStop is now taking preorders...", you couldn't buy one if you wanted to.
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Jeff P. wrote:

I'm sorry, but I don't see your point. Whether the sales rep uses his hand or your hand or a hot dog or somebody's weenie is irrelevant. He's not going to give a demo that makes his product look bad. The fact that it looks good in a demo has little relevance to its functioning in the real world unless the use to which it is going to be put is _exactly_ that that was demonstrated.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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Well then, I guess you shouldn't buy one. Not that they'll ever be for sale anyway! The demo's I've seen are proof enough of it's effectiveness. That being said, I won't ever get one anyway.
--
Jeff P.

"A new study shows that licking the sweat off a frog
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I've been seeing a lot about this lately, some thoughts:
1. Historically, if you build something that takes away the need to think about what you are doing, people will stop thinking. Case in point - when airbags were first put into cars, there were people who stopped wearing seatbelts (because the airbag will save me, right?). The last thing anyone needs to do around a table saw (or router, etc...) is get complacent and stop paying attention to what is going on, because they are "confident" that the machine will save them if they do something stupid.
2. If don't feel comfortable with a device, that if it misfires, is going to destroy my $100+ saw blade, the safety device itself, and possibly damage the saw. All in the name of protecting me from what is, statistically, a very very low risk. Even though the consequences of this type of accident are catastrophic, the risk of occurrence is low to justify the cost. Besides there are two devices already on the market which protect against this type of accident: one comes with almost every saw made and sits over the spinning blade to prevent your touching it, and the other every woodworker is already equipped with it is located between your ears.
3. I've seen a number of those demonstrations. If the damn thing is so effective and perfectly reliable how about a demo where the sales guy runs is hand into the blade, I don't care if it prevents the saw from cutting hotdogs. After all, I have seen demo's of body armor where the guy actually takes a bullet, in my view a bullet to the chest is a lot more risky that running your finger into the saw blade.
4. I mean no offense to those who will feel safer having a saw that is equipped with one of these devices, more power to you, just don't force it on the rest of us.
Parting shot (refer to number 1.) - "If your design something that is idiot proof, they will build a better idiot!"
John C

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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:15:10 GMT, "snowdog"

It's hard to imagine running wood through a table saw without "the need to think." Maybe you're capable of that and there may be others like you. But I suspect that you're in a small minority.

Right there you've listed another reason to keep thinking: you're going to lose at least $150 if you goof, plus maybe a nice chunk of wood.

I don't know of anyone who has posted in this n.g. who has the wherewithal or the will to force this saw on you. Do you ?
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wrote:

Lets put it this way. If you are on top of a tall building and you are close to the edge, you will have a tendency to much more careful about what you do if a railing is not there. Oddly enough the railing doesn't even have to be strong enough to keep you from going over the edge, just the fact that it is there is enough to cause you to be less attentive than if it was not there are all. If you put a device on a saw that will (hopefully) stop the blade if you touch it, you will have a tendency to do things you normally would not do on the table saw. Perhaps not use that pushstick that is just out of reach, or cut a piece that is way too small without the proper support. It is part of the human condition to get "lazy" when the percieved level of danger decreases.

I am not goin to argue that in the (unlikely) event a person does make contact with the blade, the cost of the blade and safety device becomes trivial, of course it does. However, when you weigh the cost vs. the risk, I don't believe the risk in this case is great enough to justify the cost. This is no different than other decisions made in the wood shop, there are those who will argue you must wear a dust mask at all times in the shop, because the risk of inhaling the dust that you will generate justifies the need for the mask. There are others who will only wear a mask (or respirator) only when working with certain types of wood or other products. It is a decision each person has to make for himself (or herself).

The makers of this device have petitioned the Federal Government to make this device mandatory on all tablesaws (I won't argue with you on specific sizes of saws, suffice it to say that is there ultimate goal). This is equivalent to forcing it on the general populace. I will grant you that they probably do not post on this n.g., though I am pretty sure that they (or someone in their organization) lurk here.
John C.

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wrote:

I suppose this has the same level of moral hazard as a seat belt. You don't really need them until you need them, and that one moment of not thinking does you in. I suppose we all have some pretty good stories about near misses that we've had or seen along the way. Perhaps from not thinking. Perhaps from being tired. Possibly from being distracted for a moment. Maybe from inexperience.

rehabilitation, and an SWMBO from selling every last tool in the shop.

I don't think it should be a mandatory item. I think it should be readily available at a reasonable price. I don't have a problem with someone else cutting their fingers off. I just want to save mine as well as those of anyone who uses my shop.

Michael
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I agree that it should not be mandatory. I don't have any idea how effective it will be in the long run, but I'm willing to see as time plays out. I don't however see any correlation between an individual not using sawstop, and the loss of fingers. Too many people have been using table saws for too many years, with all of their fingers still intact. It's about more than just a gadget mounted on the saw.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:13:44 GMT, "snowdog"

I hate high places: I have a hard time standing in front of a floor-to-ceiling window when I'm up in a tall hotel, tho I used to paint houses for a living, including very large Victorians... the need to eat overcame the fear of heights .....
You may be right, there is likely to be a subconscious influence on how scared you are of the saw with the device on it. But I wonder about how much that will weigh on someone willing to lay out the money for this saw. I almost always wear a seat belt when in a car and my van has airbags. I really don't think that I drive more carelessly because I know I am safer and I go slower as I get older. I think that people who are likely to take more risks - as I was when I was younger - are the ones most likely to be careless. But I don't think that they are likely to buy this saw in the first place.

What I meant was that the image in my mind of not being careful resulting in the loss of a sawblade and a cartridge for $150 or so would make me be more careful, even if I thought that the device would make me invulnerable.

I don't know if I will buy this saw. I decided to get a band saw first and get by with it and miter and circular saws for a year or so before buying a table saw, if ever. If I do, I'd like to consider this one but I won't if they're still pursuing this regulation.
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You're right. I'm going to start a petition to have all airbags and seatbelts removed from cars. All guards should be removed from all machinery. All warning signs in places of danger should be removed. People should know when something is dangerous and act accordingly.

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I propose that everyone should be required to wear full NHL approved hockey goalie protective gear, with the addition of mattresses strapped on in front and back.
Stiff penalties should be dealt to scofflaws! <G>
Barry
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snipped-for-privacy@nhsd.k2.pa.us (David Hall) wrote in message

The other side effect to consider is that eliminating low end saws will not eliminate the use of saws by users who would otherwise use those low end saws. So the weekend warrier cannot get a table saw. What does she do? Why, uses or mis-uses a hand held circular saw. Which is more dangerous: Ripping a 2x4 down on a low end table saw or trying to halfway hold it on a couple of saw horses or a work-mate while forcing a circular saw into a bind?
My biggest gripe is that the SawStop folks are trying to get a government mandated monopoly. If they were pushing for liability reform to make it more feasible to get vendors to adopt the technology that would be fine.
hex -30-
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