SawStop

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On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:41:38 -0500, "J. Clarke"

Exactly! <G>
Barry
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wrote:

(snip)

Because, of course, the people as mentioned above are driving perfectly safely, is that it?
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Actually it is possible for an illegal immigrant, fugitive, or a person with expired registration or insurance to drive perfectly safely.
Barry
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wrote:

Sure, but if they're not driving legally, then I really don't have a problem with them getting found doing same.
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Strictly speaking, I guess that must be true, at least as a theoretical construction -- but there seems to be little empirical evidence to support that position, and evidence aplenty for the contrary.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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The "yea but how will it do in the real world?" question comes up often. Good question, but it's one that SawStop couldn't have answered without engineering the saw conservatively and getting them out in real shops. That's what they've done. There are about 200 in shops right now. There will probably be 1000 by partway through 2005. Now we just give Murphy's Law some time to act.
I find SawStop's engineering and testing entirely reasonable. They haven't taught 100 monkeys to cut wood and then studied the accident rates and results, but I don't think they needed to. I take it as obvious that stopping a blade in 1/200 second and dropping it below the table will substantially reduce injury, and is a worthwhile addition to a saw design.
FWIW, the same results won't be gotten by just dropping the blade. Look closely at the side view high speed video on the SawStop site. The blade stops before it drops. Also, the drop is effected by the stop. A drop without a stop might take a more complicated mechanism.
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On 31 Jan 2005 10:01:08 -0500, dwright

So how does the Sawstop distinguish between cutting wood and cutting a finger? I can't see how it happens that the saw knows the difference.
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Charles Krug wrote: ...

It distinguishes a change in capacitance from the moisture in the flesh...that's why there's the override switch for known really wet wood to avoid spurious discharge--of course, then it's a standard saw.
I've not looked for it, but I assume the patent is on file and would be available on the PO site...
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Take a trip to their web site. It's explained there.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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Electrical conductivity. Dry wood won't conduct as well as your finger will.
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SawStop has been very careful to be accurate in their representation of the machine. The blade brake acts to reduce the severity of injury that occurs when an operator's body contacts the spinning blade. Anyone who has witnessed the demo - and it's worth noting that independent parties such as the FWW staff have tested the brake and found it to work as claimed - understands that this "reduction in severity" is substantial. SawStop cannot, however, make specific performance claims for several reasons:
-- Claim a maximum depth cut of 1/16" (the actual max. typical cut that they mentioned in early product development discussion) and then they get sued if someone gets cut 3/32" deep.
-- Claim a maximum depth cut of 1/4" and people say "what's the point?".
-- How fast the blade stops depends on blade material, tooth count, tooth geometry, blade body coatings, sharpness, and other factors. They can't guarantee a particular performance. If they did there would be plenty of lawyers with high speed cameras waiting to figure out some qualification they forgot to list and then sue them.
You may be thinking "why buy the product if they can't be held accountable?" Believe me...there is plenty in the Owner's Manual for which they will be accountable. They have set up the saw so it won't operate (unless in Bypass Mode) unless configured properly and the brake is fully functional. If the spinning blade touches a person and the brake doesnt release then SawStop will have plenty of responsibility. That's good enough for me, and was part of my logic in buying the saw.
Anyone out there have an owners manual for their car that claims exact airbag sensing and activation speed? How about claims for how fast the car can be moving, or what it can hit, without injury to the driver? They just say that the airbag will activate and may reduce injury. I don't think they could say more, and I find SawStop's similar approach honest and straightforward.
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No question, even with the blade brake it's a very dangerous saw. The rear suspension on my friend's pickup still looks a tad low and off center after hauling it to my shop. I picked up a splinter while uncrating it. Almost caught a finger between the front rail and a block while lifting it for the mobile base. Got a bruise on one hip from bumping while walking too close around it. Nicked a knuckle tightening one of the setscrews inside the cabinet. So far the greatest harm, however, has been to my wallet. Ouch!
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:02:12 GMT, Jeff P.

hand
out to

waiting,
actually
Well, since the website _still_ says "SawStop is now taking preorders...", you couldn't buy one if you wanted to.[/quote:13afcdffce]
Well...I suppose someone could buy mine from me if they offered enough.
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I'll agree with that. And seatbelts on airplanes always seemed kind of ridiculous. I personally feel kinda naked without my car seatbelt on, but I guess you don't care as much because they're usually loose, they're just a lap belt, and they're not uncomfortable. Just useless.
So what is a riving knife?
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At first glance, and with respect to high angle ground impacts you are probably right that a seat belt isn't going to make a lot of difference.
But, airplanes are much more affected by air currents than are automobiles. When the aircraft suddenly and unexpectedly encounters a several hundred foot per minute downdraft, you'll be glad the seatbelt is cinched down good and tight. Especially if you happen to be the pilot and are holding the control yoke when the overhead whacks you on the top of the head. I won't start the engine until all aboard are well belted in.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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I don't believe that govts should be able to require adults to wear seatbelts in autos, though I've always worn them, but I do see the point in requiring them on commercial flights: you might not care about whether the person next to you gets hurt because he is loose, but he may do a job on you or, say, the little kid on the other side of the aisle, while he's tossed around because he's unbuckled and the plane has hit a pocket or the pilot has to make an emergency maneuver. Crashes are quite rare but incidents are much less so. I fly a fair amount and I've been in three situations where things in the4335921047&rd=1> cabin went flying.
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Ever hit serious turbulence? The kind where the flight attendants strap in and make funny faces?
If you'd ever flown through some of it, you'd change your mind. <G>
We don't even need to get into crashes like UAL 232, where half of the passengers actually survived a DC10 cartwheeling through a corn field.
Barry
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wrote:

Yeah, on a smaller plane it makes sense. I've been in some pretty bad turbulance in that respect. Anything that affects a 737 in that way is enough to make you wish you had a full chest harness like the nascar guys. I know there's a reason for them, it's just that they look woefully inadequate. If you tumble through a cornfield, I guess you're probably not gonna get tossed out the windshield. My bet is you'd be strapped tightly to a chair that was no longer connected to anything. :)
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I've seen people tossed about a 747-200 in turbulence. Is that what you're calling small? The -400 is bigger, I know... <G>
UAL232 was a DC10 that had the tail engine disintegrate and cut a bunch of hydraulic lines. Through some serious problem solving and the presence of an instructor pilot on the passenger manifest, the plane actually landed. Upon landing, it cartwheeled. Half of the passengers survived. If everyone had been flying around the cabin, not belted in at all, maybe the results might have been different?
More info: <http://historian.freeservers.com/flight.htm
Barry
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mark wrote:

If you check the regs you'll find that before that seat comes loose whoever is in it is already dead--the g-load they have to take is beyond the endurance of the human body.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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