SawStop

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wrote:

now this sounds interesting. we may finally have a US source for riving knives for taiwan unisaw knockoffs.
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tzipple writes:

Probably more common than that.

Yes. That and the European crown style guard would help one helluva lot, at very low cost to the manufacturers. It's not perfect, but what is? I don't understand why the manufacturers go on producing overly complex and expensive guards that are more of a problem than a safety feature. It may be a legal thing, but that doesn't seem likely. Maybe it's time someone asked all the tool makers that question out loud. A simple change. A one time change in tooling and assembly line needs. Over and done with. A major, unspecified, reduction in kickback problem and in blade injuries, at a probable introductory cost per saw of under five bucks (less when you figure in the ability to scrap making the old guards, with their excessive complexity and materials amounts).
Charlie Self "Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing." Redd Foxx
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I ain't selling it...
Fine Woodworking's current issue has an article on the StopSaw, now being sold. Very positive initial article. The number that they use is, I believe, 3500+ amputations. I do not find that hard to believe if you count all accidents resulting in finger amputations. I have met enough woodworkers with 9 1/2 fingers to see this as credible.
philski wrote:

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tzipple states:

I haven't. This is a woodworking area, both personally and professionally, with three furniture factories (small) in town, and what used to be more (Lane) 40 miles away, and most of the U.S. furniture industry within about three hours easy drive. There are some amputations around, but far fewer than you'd expect. I've seen a lot more stub fingers on farmers than I have on woodworkers, and, while I've seen plenty of both, I've seen a lot more woodworkers.
Charlie Self "Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing." Redd Foxx
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I've seen the SawStop guys at woodworking shows for years, and the product is still not widely available. Last check, I think they were still taking "deposits". Must have one heck of a VC behind them all these years.

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"tzipple" wrote in message ...

I think your premise is incorrect. If that were the case the unsafe blade guards used in North America would have been replaced a long time ago.
Like most things, if the market decides that an extra $X00 per saw is a worthwhile investment, then some will be fitted. It is usually not up to the manufacturer to make it safe (unless it is legislated) if there are clear warnings in the manuals or stickers etc on the machines.
Greg
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I heard that they are trying to design one that will work with a deli meat slicer.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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wrote:

That'll be ...problematic... but, as the real "product" still seems to be vaporware, I don't think that the technology will be the limiting factor.
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It was reported that they were shipping in small numbers. Not quite vapor, but a very fine mist.
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Does anyone know of anyone who has one?
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In wrote:

A batch of sawstops saws is crossing the ocean as we speak to be delivered later this month.
--
Ted Harris



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We'll see. Until I see one I can buy, or know someone who has, it's still vaporware. And I thought some had arrived, but had "build quality problems", the thing with the 'excuse letter' and all that?
Dave
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You mean the blade will stop if someone put a piece of wood in it?
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    Greetings and Salutations...
wrote:

    Well, this has been chewed over a number of times, and, I have to say that my feelings about it have not changed, having read the fairly detailed review in the Tools and Shop issue of Fine Woodworking. I still think that it is something that should not be "required" by law at all..and if they can sell saws with it installed, more power to them.

    Well, there are a lot of "ifs" there. Actually, I will be interested to see if the company survives the first lawsuit that comes when the thing fails and one of those several thousand amputations occurs anyway. It is a pretty good bet that whoever sues them will end up owning the company, considering their advertising copy.     Another design change that they have slipped in, that lowers it in my eyes, is that the cartridge stop has apparently changed from plastic to aluminum. While I am sure that this improves the ability of the device to freeze the blade, the fact that this process not only stops the saw, but, "welds the stop to the blade", destroying the blade in the process is NOT a happy thing. It is bad enough to have to replace a $50-$90 cartridge, but, the idea of getting to replace a $125 sawblade, or a $200 dado blade set is just NOT a good selling point to me.     The bottom line is that the only way that a table saw can be a "safe" tool is for the operator to remain alert and slightly nervous about the consequences of a screw-up. Having this sort of thing on the saw will cause the operator to get overconfident, complacent and sloppy. It is just human nature.     While I don't want to be flippant about the injury rates listed in the article, I DO want to point out that there are likely millions (or tens of millions) of usages of saws every year in the USA. While taken out of context, the idea of thousands of accidents seems like a lot, in context of the total number of times a table saw is used, it is a drop in the ocean.     It would also be interesting to know how much training the injured operators had before their accident. I suspect that it was minimal.     The bottom line for me is that I would not buy a saw with this technology installed, and, I really think it is a bad idea to get the government involved in forcing me to buy one.     Regards     Dave Mundt
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I agree. It's a dangerous tool, and you have to be careful using it. But then again, I feel the same way about other legislation that gets in my life, like helmet laws and seatbelt laws. You can't save people from their own stupidity. I would wear a helmet if I rode a motorcycle, and I wear a seatbelt in the car, and I would probably buy a saw with this feature if it were a free or reasonably price option, only because accidents do happen. But I resent the fact that I'm told that it's mandatory by a bunch of lawyers and politicians that want to make it look like they're doing something for their money.
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An old discussion and a slippery slope. Should "buyer beware" apply to all merchandise including food & drugs? All services including banking, insurance, etc? Usually, we are pretty selective about what protections ittitate us. Seatbelt requirements in a car are a big deal, but no one revolts regarding seatbelts on airplanes, for example.
The fact is none of us (well, maybe you do, Mark) have time to research all potentially dangerous items that we ourchase, are reluctant to fully trust companies who may have more interest in their bottom line than in reasonably safe products, and we depend on government to apply basic standards to a huge range of items and services in order to to protect us. While one may quibble about particular items or protections, the general principle seems like a good thing to me.
mark wrote:

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tzipple responds:

I think the irritation is not with the inclusion of the seat belt, or the availability of the safety helmet for motorcyclists, but the making of the use a legal requirement. I use seatbelts. Back when I was still riding motorcycles, I used helmets and at least three times, the helmet saved my life, or my ability to walk. At that time, neither was a legal requirement. I still use seatbelts every time I use a vehicle, but it is NOT because the state and the feds tell me I have to.
Possibly my biggest objection to these legalities is the way they grow. A few states will make, say, helmets mandatory. Survival statistics improve in those states. The Feds then get a toe in, making state reception of certain road funds dependent on their having helmet use laws that fit a new Federal standard. Whoops. A bit further down the slippery slope to big government, de facto Federal control of a Constitutional state function, using the big stick called bucks.
Charlie Self "Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing." Redd Foxx
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Charlie Self wrote:

FWIW, yesterday I was getting on the Interstate and at the onramp there was not one, but three cops doing nothing but checking for seat belt use. Apparently this was done statewide. Really wish that it all came out of the pockets of the politicians.

This is actually one of my objections to socialized medicine--once it starts getting expensive the state has an incentive to cut costs by eliminating sources of injury. Starts out with helmets and seat belts but where does it end?

--
--John
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On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:13:18 -0500, "J. Clarke"

According to a cop I know, they find an awful lot besides unbuckled seatbelts a those stops. <G>
Open beers, clouds of pot smoke in the car, expired registrations, emissions violations (CT's old system), defective equipment, OUI, illegal immigrants, unregistered weapons, stolen cars, bail jumpers, you name it.
Not to mention, the holy grail, the u-turner or runner. These are the folks who see the checkpoint and either speed right through or pull a u-turn and run.
Apparently, many drunk and stoned folks, along with those who can't be bothered to renew registrations and insurance, or show up in court, also don't wear seatbelts. Once you're stopped...
The more he told me, the more I realized that the checkpoints have little to do with safety.
Barry
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Ba r r y wrote:

Could be but this particular time they said on the news that night that there was a crackdown on seatbelt use in progress.

--
--John
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